"US Paras and BARs" Topic

Hi all

Did the US Para Infantry use BARs in their rifle squads given that they had one 30 cal LMG per squad too? I want to do a Bastogne force in 28mm but think Artizan have this wrong.

Remember that in the Ardennes both the 82nd and 101st were fighting primarily as leg infantry. They grabbed whatever firepower they could including extra machine guns and BARs.

i know that the 101st paras did not have the bar at normandy or holland. only the glider infantry was issued the bar. i would assume the paras got their hands on a few by bastogne, but not too many.

My brother's ex-father-in-law was a paratrooper in the 17th Airborne Div in the pacific. He told me a number of anecdotes specifically regarding BAR's.

One in particular was how they would glue a nickel to the buffer to change the timing in the weapon and increase its rate of fire.

For Bastogne keep the BARs, the extra firepower would have been felt too useful to discard. In truth the .30 cal was platoon support weapon and was only "attached" to squads anyway.

I had read that some of the "sticks" while jumping into Normandie lost their support weapons and had to make do with whatever they got their hands on.

After D+1, D+2.. there were PIR troops that fielded BAR's in lieu of their lost 30. cal medium mmg.

Any other info? would be appreciated. thanks!

Thanks everyone,

As most of you perceptively say they'd grab anything going so I'll keep the BARs too – the more the merrier when you're up against bionic Germans!

The next thorny question is – what about greatcoats – roughly what % should have them? I know they were short of cold weather gear…

Andyboarer,

My research suggests that the paratroopers "procurred" whatever weapons they needed, especially the BAR. At both Normandy and at Arnhem the 82nd and 101st got their hands on as many BAR's as they could, taking them from the wreckage of the gliders in many cases. At Bastone, I assume they found what they needed from the remanents of the regulars who were retreating. Most of the paratroopers during the Bulge had greatcoats.

db

Try this

link

My Osprey on the Bastogne states that the greatcoats were generally disfavored by the infantry as they were wool and soaked up mositure rather than protecting one from it. So your coat would get sopped and then freeeze—basically turning you into a human popsicle. It also states—surprisingly—that most troopers perferred the M42 jacket but lined with sweaters and other layers. Then of course there should be a few Ike jackets as well. Remember also that (once again according to Osprey) the troops at Bastogne hadn't been well-outfitted for Winter combat. Based on all of this, I will personally do only about 25% Greatcoats when I put together my Artizan 101st for Bastogne. Otherwise I'll just use the regular paras…

Ax

"Then of course there should be a few Ike jackets as well'

The "Ike Jacket" is the short jacket cut to the same pattern as the British Battledress jacket. They would be unlikely to be worn by troops in combat

They were not 'supposed' to have BARs at that time, no…

But I seem to remember reading an account of troopers being sent to Bastone so quickly they literally did not have their weapons, equipment or their personal effects with them when the trucks showed up and they moved out… It seems that they were in the process of resting and re-equipping when the trucks showed up.

They were told their equipment/personal items would meet them at their destination (unknown to them when they departed of course). As I recall from the account, this particular trooper never saw his personal equipment/items again.

GG

Okay then—whatever the fur-lined wind-breaker type jacket is…

Thanks guys – especially that link, easy eight – much appreciated.

I reckon at least one order's on the way to Artizan!

By the time of the Ardennes the airborne forces wore little that was unique to the paratroops. The most likely paratroop item to still be seen was their jump boots.

They were issued the standard M1943 jacket and trousers though, as pointed out, the M1942 version was still in use.

The M1942 overcoat was still the standard issue.

The fur-lined wind-breaker is probably a reference to the hip length Mackinaw which was issued to the 101st and was relatively popular. It was issued in 3 versions. However it was not nearly as common in the field as either the overcoat of M1943 jacket.

That's it—the "Mackinaw."

NO BARs in Normandy.

Until late '44 the TO&E for the American Para rifle squad included a 30 cal machingun, but no BAR. After Normandy, the para divisions were sent back to Britain for R & R where their organization was restructured to match that of the standard infantry rifle squad. The 30 cal was lost and the BAR included. So, from Market-Garden on, airborne rifle squads carried at least one BAR into combat.

There are a number of anecdotal stories of paras carrying BARs in Normandy, but I question their veracity. While anything is possible, the likelihood of troopers jumping into Normandy with scrounged BARs is very low. They wouldn't have had access to them, training in them, or access to parts and ammo clips.

I did a recent study examining every photograph I could get my hands on of American Paras immediately before D-Day, and in Normandy immediately after (over 100). I did not find a single picture of a paratrooper with a BAR.

Check out "Band of Brothers." I think we all know how carefully researched that series was. There were no BARS in Normandy. They appear for the first time in Holland.

Hope that helps.

I seem to recall that the company featured in the book, "Seven Bloody Roads" (I think that was the title) were ordered to drop their overcoats in a pile and walk into combat, as the commanding officer felt they would slow them down, etc. Pictures of the 101 pre-snow show some with, some without. I think a few with would be okay.

"The 30 cal was lost and the BAR included. So, from Market-Garden on, airborne rifle squads carried at least one BAR into combat."

The .30 cal was in use by the Paras as the squad auto weapon until Korea. The BAR wasn't officially issued to the Paras during WWII but there is anecdotal evidence of them using the BAR(and the odd photo as well, see cover of "Vanguard of the Crusade" buy Mark Bando for example )

Thanks guys, for 101 at Bastogne I'm going to go with about 25% in overcoats, with a 30 cal lmg in each squad and with just the occasional rifleman figure having a BAR instead of a M1.