"Austrian Infantry Regiments 1809." Topic

I have nearly finished my first Austrian Infantry regiment as part of my preparation for my Aspern Essling re fight.

Looking into the three battalion regimental structure I was wondering if each battalion had a Colonel and the Inhalber Colonel was in overall command or did he command a battalion as well as the regiment, as I have read evidence that this might be the case.

ie. If I use a mounted gentleman in charge do I need three or four?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Also, if Herr Inhalber has a duel role is he with the Liebfanne battalion or an Ordinaire battalion ?

I would like to get this right as I have a lot of troops to organise

Chris

The Inhaber was primarily an honourary position rather than a command position, responsible for sponsorship, officer appointments etc.. He could be a prince or a general with their own duties and it was very rare indeed that they would command a regiment in the field.

In the key year of 1809, in the field a regiment would have two battalions (the senior Oberstbataillon and the junior Oberstleutnantbataillon named for their commanders) and two companies of grenadiers who were hived off to form independent grenadier battalions with the four grenadier companies of another two regiments. The third battalion was the Kaderbataillon which was the depot battalion and did not deploy. You only need two mounted officer figures.

If the Inhaber was also the Oberst, he would be with the senior battalion which carried the Liebfahne.

Hope that helps.

Fantastic stuff.

That makes sense as my regiment number 35 is named as Argenteau commanded by a Von Glessenburg.

However, this regiment had three battalions but your point about the Liebfanne if their names coincide is most useful.

Thank you again for your help.

Best wishes,

Chris

I agree with Artilleryman's description. The inhaber was usually a senior general so it was sort of honorary position. I suspect it was also an additional way of paying senior staff. The system in the British army was very similar although by this time the regiments were not named after the colonel.

Here are a couple of examples from the Leipzig order of battle.

Hieronymus Colloredo Regiment No 33 was in the reserve corps while Hieronymus Graf Colloredo-Mannsfeld was commander of 1st Corps

Ignaz Gyulai Regiment No 7 was in III Corps. Ignaz Graf Gyulai was III Corps commander but was separated by a battalion, brigade and division commander from the regiment.

There are plenty of other examples including cavalry regiments.

Artilleryman: "The third battalion was the Kaderbataillon which was the depot battalion and did not deploy."

Non!

En 1809, les régiments d'infanterie autrichiens étaient à 3 bataillons de guerre.
Ces bataillons sont à 6 compagnies monotypes.

Même le troisième bataillon, initialement à 4 compagnies, sera progressivement augmenté à 6 compagnies pour tous les régiments d'infanterie.

Les 3 bataillons de guerre sont déployés sur le terrain.

Le dépôt (généralement 2 compagnies) reste lui dans la ville de garnison.

My research has the majority of infantry regiments deploying three battalions in 1809.

However, I am very grateful to Mr Artilleryman for his answer.

Just to expand a little.

My book on Wagram has excellent uniform plates of the Austrian units involved.

However, some have the Feld Zeichen and some do not.

My understanding is that this was an Austrian tradition.

Is there an explanation why some regiments are shown with it and some not?

Even contemporary paintings seem to be at variance.

Many thanks,

Chris

Interesting. I will look into it some more.

You are a kind chap.

Thank you.

Chris

Indeed, three battalions seems common in 1809.

The field sign of oakleaves was a strong tradition in the Hapsburg armies and, as far as I can make out was widely used throughout history. The variations in illustration can be put down to many reasons.

1. The artists were just inaccurate. They did not pick up on this unique item.

2. The sign was foliage pushed in behind the cockade. It could easily fall out in the heat of the action. Therefore, not portraying it could actually, in many circumstances, be accurate.

3. The sign, being a natural item, would be subject to the seasons. At certain times of the year the leaves may just not be available.

My personal opinion would be that portraying the Feld Zeichen, rather than not, would be better on a uniform plate. Portraying some with and some without would be realistic for a battle scene. Most model figures are produced with the sign so sometimes, the decision is made for you.

Hope that helps.

Thank you again.

Oak leaves would be, assuming the trees were around, in full bloom by late May.

The Marchfeld was quite a barren landscape for foliage so I think I will follow the uniform plates, which seem to be accurate regarding the uniforms and have some regiments with the sign and some not.

I am hoping that garden moss when teased will provide a realistic Feld Ziechen for my troops as the manufacturers seem to have not bothered.

Brilliant help and thank you again.

Best wishes,

Chris

Chris, what is your book on Wagram?

I always enjoy your postings.

Tom

Thank you, you are very kind.

Wagram, The Apogee of the empire .

F G Hourtoulle.

Best wishes,

Chris

Chris
As an aside, Argenteau Infantry Regiment No. 35 (3,397 all ranks in 3 battalions at Aspern-Essling) was the former Erzherzog Johann Infantry Regiment until 1st May 1809, when it changed Inhaber to FML Eugen Graf Argenteau.
If you don't already have it, I can thoroughly recommend John Gill's trilogy '1809: Thunder on the Danube'. Volume II covers Aspern-Essling.
I look forward to seeing the diorama. Your previous efforts have been stunning.
Kind regards
Allan

Thank you for your kind comments Allan.

Yes I have this book amongst many others. It is a big learning curve discovering the workings of the Austrian army and the campaign after my previous investigations.

I am still battling at Antietam whilst preparing Aspern.

I hope to start a new Aspern Essling report thread soon showing my work to date.

Best wishes,

Chris

the loveflag again – Liebfahne – it is Leibfahne, a totally different meaning, it is attributed to the first battalion, I also was under the impression that a regiment was fielding two battalions only – each of 6 companies, the Feldzeichen, I have to dig it up, was copied originally from the French and was a twig, so had to be renewed on and off.

Thanks for the title Chris. Very nice book. I thought it might be one I missed.

Tom

Many regiments had three battalions at Aspern-Essling. Some that didn't (eg IR50 Stain) had the third battalion on a different role, eg in an overwatch task on a different stretch of the Rhein.

Apologies, I had put an n instead of a h.

Stubby fingers and senility !

Best wishes ,

Chris

Also, Majors were also mounted so a mounted officer for any of the battalions is fine. As people have noted, the Inhaler was rarely present with his regiment, so that isn't really a concern.

Now you have caught it too.

Inhaler…..

Ho ho.

Thanks to everyone for their prompt help.

Best wishes,

Chris

seemingly 3 battalions, this is what Acerbi is saying :

Whenever called to war standing, the regiment raised four additional companies, two being drafted into the third
battalion, giving the unit three full field battalions and the remaining two forming the cadre of a new depot battalion, the
fourth. However, during the 1809 campaign, several regiments augmented this fourth battalions and a few even had five
field battalions serving in different armies. Battalions were numbered 1 to 3, divisions 1 to 9 and companies 1 to 18
consecutively through the regiment and was introduced a new administrative unit, the zug (similar to the modern

I am recommending to download all of his series about the Austrian army, a series in multiple parts

link

Thank you Von W.

Informative as always.

Best wishes,

Chris

vW
You are correct. Most regiments had two battalions of six companies and one battalion of four companies in January 1809, but by March 1809 had three battalions of six companies in the field, as Acerbi states. Krieg v1 has the detail on pages 616 et seq for January and pages 627-628 for March.
Kind regards
Allan

Krieg v1 ???
Où puis-je trouver ce "Krieg v1"?

Cordialement
Bernard

KRIEGE UNTER DER REGIERUNG DES KAISERS FRANZ

Krieg 1809. Nach den Feldakten und anderen authentischen Quellen bearbeitet in der Kriegsgeschichtlichen Abteilung des K. und K. Kriegsarchivs
Band 1 – Regensberg PDF link
Band 2 – Italien PDF link
Band 3 – Neumarkt, Ebelsberg, Wien link
Band 4 – Aspern link
The last 2 volumes, you may have to access by simulating USA in a VPN…

@Prince of Essling
Immenses mercis!

Bernard

Thank you for these.

That's a lot of information!

Unfortunately the Aspern link will not open for me.

However, again, thank you very much.

Best wishes,

Chris

Je n'ai pas de VPN…
Quelqu'un pourrait peut-être m'envoyer les "Band 3 et 4" par "Wetransfer" par exemple?

Cordialement
Bernard

Ping me an e-mail & I will forward the tomes later today- prinzessling at gmail.com Note the Aspern file size is 42.8KB & the Neumarkt, Ebelsberg, Wien file size is 34.7KB.

Good Morning.

Your link did not work with at so I have tried @.

I hope that you have received my PM.

Thank you for your help.

Chris

Hi Chris,
File now sent, plus as a nice addition the four maps for Aspern-Essling from Buat's "Étude critique d'histoire militaire 1809".
All the best
Ian

@Prince of Essling
Peut-on envoyer un message privé sur ce site?
Si oui, comment envoie-t-on ce message privé (PM)?????

Bernard

Thank you again Ian.

Best wishes,

Chris

@Bernard1809

I believe only supporting members can PM on this site.

Ian

Ian
Are the Aspern maps from:

Etude critique d'histoire militaire. 1809, de Ratisbonne à Znaïm… Atlas
Édition : Paris, R. Chapelot , 1909. In-fol.
Auteur du texte : Edmond Buat (1868-1923)

If so, are they online somewhere? I can't find a source via the UK.
You seem to have a fabulous collection of period maps!

Kind regards
Allan

Allan,

Yes.

Have now e-mailed you what I have, but I must emphasise there doesn't appear to be a complete set on line. Although there are supposed to be 32 maps – I have managed to find only 23 (mix of battle maps & strategic). To get what I have the use of a VPN was required.

The maps that I am missing are numbers 10, 12 & 13 to accompany Volume 1, and maps numbered 6 to 9 inclusive, 14 & 16 to accompany Volume 2.

Map sizes range from 536KB to 1467KB.

Ian

Ian
Just checked on Hathitrust and although access is blocked due to US copyright it does agree there are 32 maps.
Proxy servers used to be free ;-). Any VPN recommendations?
Kind regards
Allan

@Prince of Essling

Thanks for sending all those maps – very generous.

For Hathitrust a proxy is very difficult, I did not come along one which worked, but maybe there is a collector in the US who can help out and download and then share them – like Prince of Essling.

Allan & vW,

My paid for Anti-Virus Protection does include a VPN with multiple US simulations allowing a different choice of routing if one doesn't work.

In January 2022 Hathi had just the 23 maps – the other 9 were missing…. Have just taken another look & no change – the supposed Volume 3 has no maps showing, the one that does have the 23 maps is titled "Étude critique d'histoire militaire : 1809, de Ratisbonne à Znaim / E. Buat Atlas:1-2"

This is the full list of maps:
Volume 1
générale du théâtre des opérations
1 Situation le 22 avril au soir
2 Situation le 24 avril au soir
3 Situation le 26 avril au soir
4 Situation le 28 avril au soir
5 Situation le 30 avril au soir
6 Situation le 2 mai au soir
7 Champ de bataille d'Ebersberg .
8 Situation , le 3 mai , vers 9 heures du matin
9 Situation le 7 mai au soir
10 Situation le 8 mai au soir
11 Environs de Vienne
12 Champ de bataille d'EsslingBataille d'Essling , 24 mai, vers 2 heures du soir
13 Bataille d'Essling , 21 mai , entre 4 et 5 heures du soir
14 Bataille d'Essling, 22mai, 7 heures du matin
15 Bataille d'Essling , 22 mai , entre 7 et 9 heures du matin
16 Bataille d'Essling , 22 mai , entre midi et 5 heures du soir

Volume 2
1 Situation vers le 1er juin .
2 Environs de Presbourg
3 Les expéditions de Raab et de Presbourg
4 Marche des armées d'Italie et de Dalmalie sur Vienne
5 Ile Lobau
6 Bataille de Wagram , 5 juillet . Déploiement de l'armée française . — Têtes des colonnes vers 4 heures du soir . Situation vers 7 heures du soir
7 Bataille de Wagram , 6 juillet , 4-8 heures de Du matin . Attaques sur Glinzendorf et Grosshofen. Attaques sur Aderklaa
8 Bataille de Wagram , 6 juillet , 10 heures midi -. Préparation de l'attaque centrale . – Atlaque De Davout sur Neusiedel . Le movement de Flanc de Masséna
9 Bataille de Wagram , 6juillet. – A partir de 1 heure du soir . Exécution de l'attaque centrale . L'offensive générale .-Retraite de l'armée autrichienne
10 Situation le 6juillet au soir
11 La poursuite sur Nikolsburg et Znaim . Situation des forces françaises , le 9juillet au soir
12 Bataille de Znaim , 10 juillet .
13 Bataille de Znaïm, 11 juillet
14 Cantonnements d'armistice et ligne approximative de démarcation
15 Première période de l'évacuation . Cas d'offensive autrichienne par Comorn

Apologies as I had got it slightly wrong thinking there were 16 maps to Volume 2, whereas there are just 15; I had missed the general map of the theatre of operations for Volume 1 (which is not numbered)!

All the best

Ian

@Prince of Essling
"I believe only supporting members can PM on this site.

Ian"
C'est bien dommage!

Merci quand même
Bernard

Ian
Thanks again for the maps, the list and the VPN steer.
Kind regards
Allan

You can fill in some of the map gaps by referring to "Précis historique de la guerre entre la France et l'Autriche en 1809" by le comte Alexandre de Laborde link
Unfortunately it is not a perfect copy as portions of two of the Wagram maps are missing. This is also a black and white version.

Of use re the regiments will be "The Austrian Imperial-Royal Army (Kaiserliche-Königliche Heer) 1805 – 1809" By Enrico Acerbi – some kind soul has pulled together the series of articles on the Napoleon Series into a single document: PDF link

Thank you once again Mr Prince.

Wonderful stuff as always.

Best wishes,

Chris