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"Mean of French word "Sieur"" Topic


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Mccarthy Mor06 Aug 2020 10:55 a.m. PST

This question is for our native French speakers.

In doing some genealogy research I discovered a man with the title "Sieur de la Tour".

What does "Sieur" mean? I think it means "lord" but I cannot find this word in French-English dictionaries so I'm guessing it's an archaic term. Thanks for your help.

Oliver Schmidt06 Aug 2020 11:14 a.m. PST

It depends on the time when the title is used.

Here some defintions (in French) from 1694 onwards:

link

rmaker06 Aug 2020 1:40 p.m. PST

Essentially it is the equivalent of the English "Sir". It was used by nobles who had no other title, but unlike the English version was always tied to an estate. For example, Dniel Greysolon, Sieur du Lhut.

42flanker06 Aug 2020 2:54 p.m. PST

It is cognate with 'Sir' or 'Sire' in English but is more allied to Seigneur or Señor, and of course the modern French Monsieur- a courtesy term that is the equivalent in English of 'Sir.'

As rmaker says, it is not a title as such but indicates title to a landholding, in the way that you might be 'Lord of the Manor' but not in fact a Lord. Perhaps the best equivalent today is the Scots 'Laird.'

Mccarthy Mor06 Aug 2020 7:31 p.m. PST

Thank you, sirs.

I'm guessing that this guy was lord of a manor called "la Tour"

42flanker07 Aug 2020 3:10 a.m. PST

"The Laird o' Tour" does have a certain ring to it….

'La Tour' or 'de la Tour' does turn up quite frequently as a surname amongst the gentry and nobility in France and Colonial Canada. Since tour is the French for 'tower' it does mean that as a name or honorific it would have multiple points of origin in the landscape. both literally and figuratively.

Lilian09 Aug 2020 9:45 a.m. PST

hum, depending the context…
as illustrated in the link posted by Oliver it was something much more neutral than totally associated to nobility and landholding,

it could concern everyone even you, it was much used in the notarial judicial and other parochial administrative lexicology, regardless you was noble, bourgeois, peasant, bookseller or banker

e.g. all the people mentionned in the following document (military replacement) have such titles before their name

they were only a labourer and his son, with a carpenter replacing him at the Army


Traité de remplacement.
Par devant, etc.'"
Furent présens
Le sieur Laurent Audibert, laboureur,
Stipulant en son nom personnel, à cause du remplacement dans le service militaire de Joachim Audibert , son fils mineur, appelé à faire partie du contingent à fournir par le canton de pour l'année 1833, en vertu de la loi sur le recrutement, comme ayant amené le n° 7 au tirage de ce canton, d'une part; Et M. Jean Bard, compagnon menuisier, majeur, définitivement libéré du service militaire, mais ayant les qualités nécessaires pour être admis à faire ce service, le tout ainsi qu'il le déclare ;

Ou bien: admis à remplacer le sieur Audibert fils par le conseil de révision du département de ', ainsi qu'il résulte de l'arrêté du préfet de ce département, en date du

; d'autre part'; · Lesquels ont fait et arrêté ce qui suit :

Le sieur Bard, en réitérant l'engagement par lui pris suivant l'arrêté sus énoncé, s'oblige à remplacer le sieur Audibert fils dans le service militaire, pendant tout le temps prescrit par les lois actuelles, ou qui le sera par des lois à intervenir, et généralement pendant tout le temps que le sieur Audibert sera tenu de servir; de se rendre directement au corps qui lui sera désigné, et de justifier de sa présence par un certificat en forme, aussitôt qu'il y aura été incorporé.

Ce remplacement est consenti par le sieur Bard moyennant la somme de 1,400 fr., que le sieur Audibert père s'oblige de lui payer, savoir 200 fr. le jour de son départ, 400 fr. à son arrivée au corps, et sur la représentation d'un cer. tificat du conseil d'administration du régiment, constatant sa présence, et 8oo fr. à l'expiration de l'année de responsabilité dont les remplacés sont tenus pour leurs remplaçans envers le gouvernement."

42flanker09 Aug 2020 10:38 a.m. PST

But if the reference includes a locale: 'Sieur de N'importquoi' – which is the context of the OP question, then that is something more specific.

Lilian09 Aug 2020 10:55 a.m. PST

not precised the period and real context, I don't know, such family name is quite common and despite the "de" it doesn't indicate necessarily a nobility,
the famous painter Georges de la Tour was son of bakers, there were/are still many false-aristocratic familiy names with "de" like that

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