"Churchill AVRE Petard: Bocage Hedge Breaching?" Topic

Wasn't there that famous painting of (the future Archbishop of Canterbury et al)Chuchill's just launching themselves OVER the hedgerows?
But, yes, would be a good use of an engineering tank.

I don't see why not; as has been said, it would surely be a good use of an engineering asset. However, can't think of any specific examples of it being done.

Oddly enough, I do have an example of one being used on a Panther… ;)

That's quite a picture. I've just ordered a copy as Christmass treat to myself.

x42

The answer I suspect is that it could be done. However it would not be practical. If I recall the US troops found a way of blowing holes in the hedgerows but worked out that there was not enought explosive available to do the job effectively. They welded steel to Shermans to do the task. Similarly there would be no way enought ammo around to blow a credible number of holes in the bocarge.

If the hedgerows were walls then it might have been quite effective, but they are huge earth banks full of tangled roots so unless the demo charge was either tamped down or penetrated the bank before exploding it is probably just going to make a big bang but not actually blow a useable hole.

A 6" gun firing direct would have worked quite well I expect.

The problem of reloading may have 'influenced' the use too, fine for trundling up and blasting a bunker but then you have to withdraw to cover and get out to reload……..bocage type banks of earth were more readily breached mechanically by dozers and Cullens plows ……explosive power would be absorbed by the earth and reflected up without tamping or setting the charge deeper into the bank………..

The petard mortar on the Churchill AVRE could be loaded at least partially from under cover. link This thread suggests that a good crew could maintain a respectable ROF of 4 per minute…. link One being loaded on this thread. link (1/2 way down page 10).

One in action here YouTube link

UshCha is correct. Early on the US experimented with welding poles on tanks which rammed the boccage leaving deep holes. This would then be packed with explosives, sealed and then set off. But, as UscCha correctly states, the amount of explosives necessary was enormous to be effective. Of course they were on the right "track" so to speak with welding items on the front of thanks :)

A rather interesting discussion, skip down to page 30 for some of the solutions.
link

Tim,

The incident occurred during the 2nd Essex Regt's final assault on tilly-sur-Seulles on 18/19th June 1944. They were supported by 81st Assault Squadron RE:

"As we came near the crossroads, there was an explosion near the front of our AVRE. I immediately sprayed MG rounds at some bushes, where we thought they had fired at us. At the same time a German tank, possibly a Panther, came out of the road across our front. Captain Davies told us to fire a Dustbin [290mm Petard round] at it, only 50 yards away. I traversed our turret slightly to the right, took aim and fired at its turret ring. The round hit a telegraph pole about three feet from the enemy tank. When the smoke and dust cleared the tank had stopped and did not move again. We agreed that the blast had put it out of action."

– Sapper Sydney Blaskett, No.1 Troop, 81 Assault Squadron, Royal Engineers.

I did a scenario for the battle here: PDF link

Re loading the Petard; as Etranger says, the loader only had to be partially exposed. The petard mortar 'broke' like a shotgun, though upward, to allow vertical reloading from the co-driver's hatch. The normal hinged co-driver's hatch on the AVRE was replaced by a sliding hatch to facilitate this.

It's worth adding that in the Tilly battle mentioned above, 81st Assault Sqn RE brought some armoured Caterpillar dozers along from the brigade Field Park Sqn for the purpose of breaching hedgerows.

The avre would probably be firing at a very acute angle to any bocage hedgerow.

Fans of that picture might want to browse a copy of osprey ww2 dioramas. One of the projects re-creates the scene.

Willie Whitelaw (Margaret Thatcher's Deputy Prime Minister) was in the same battalion as Robert Runcie. Given their different political positions, it must have led to some interesting discussions later. One of my Christmas presents was the history of the Scots Guards so I'll tell if he did anything else interesting in the next couple of days.

I remember a quote from Runcie when asked by some anti-hunt protesters whether he had ever killed a fox. 'No', he replied, 'only people'.
Don't ask where I read it as I have no idea.