"Did some Hessian grenadiers wear the bearskin?" Topic

I was reading Fischer's "Washington's Crossing", and on p64 there is a "hand colored engraving by Muller" for Regiment "von alt Lossberg".

so as to give it a link, I tracked it down to here:
link

I realize that these drawings were made in 1784, on the return of the regiments to Hesse Kassel.
So…

You can find a few more such by Googling "Hessian muller engraving".

Should Der Alt Fritz hold off on sculpting his Hessians until this is settled?

Me, I would LOVE to have Hessians with bearskins, but nobody makes them, sadly.

I like the look. If nothing else, how about a head option?

I love the bear skin look. I hope that there might be an option to get these, even if they are questionable as historically accurate.

Sometimes the cool factor must be used.

Great find John.

John'. Now I don't know what to think. If I had asked that question, I would have expected you to have the answer.

And I would have said "No!"

Plate 86 in the Mollo book illustrates a grenadier of the 2nd Brandenburg-Ansbach Regiment wearing a bearskin with a silver front plate bearing the image of a Prussian style eagle, and a red bag at the back of the grenadier bearskin.

I'm a thinkin' that if they were in Philadelphia and they is a wearin' the fur of the bear, then Olde Fritz might have a hankerin' to have them in Fife & Drum. Sure nuff!

Mollo also says that the two Ansbach regiments served in Philadelphia 1777-1778, New York 1778, Rhode Island 1779, and New York October 1779-May 1781, when they joined Cornwallis in Yorktown.

Mollo also says that the Waldeck Regt grenadiers wore bearskins after the Dutch fashion with no front plate, together with yellow cloth bags trimmed in white.

My main question about the Hessians circa 1777-78 is what sort of marching pose should they have? Did they use that slow step or did they assume a looser and less formal march cadence?

Firing poses we can figure out, but how did the Hessians march?

Great research by Der Alte Fritz – as I recall, the Ansbach-Bayreuth Grenadiers wore bearskins in the AWI

I realize that these drawings were made in 1784, on the return of the regiments to Hesse Kassel.
So…

I think that's the rub. Hessian grenadiers (both Kassel and Darmstadt) had exclusively worn the cloth and metal mitre caps during the preceding years of the 18th C. This is, AFAIK, the only source that shows HK troops in bearskins, and it is after the War. All other sources indicate they wore mitre caps during the War, nicht war?

My suspicion is they liked the look of the bearskins from their exposure to British, Waldeck, and Ansbach-Bayreuth grenadiers and adopted them on their return to Germany. They were still wearing them at start of the French Revolutionary Wars. Interestingly, Hesse-Darmstadt (having stayed home from 1775-1783) retained the mitre.

Enfant: you are such a kill joy , but your assessment makes a lot of sense to me, alas .

Come on, Jim! You know you WANT to!

I have seen the illustrations mentioned by Der Alte Fritz along with a postcard of the Waldeck Grenadiers with no frontal plate.

I agree with enfant. Lefferts also states that von Lossberg wore mitres.

Mollo is wrong on the Anspachers, I'm afraid – I've had this discussion with "RN Sulentic" on here and he has confirmed it (there's also a Knotel plate showing this, based on post-war uniform records). They wore cloth/metal mitre caps like the other German grenadiers. AFAIK, none of the German contingents wore them, with the possible exception of the Waldeckers – however, even with them I would be careful. Unless there is contemporary pictorial evidence of the Waldeckers wearing bearskins, I would be tempted to go for mitres for them, too.

Although Dutch grenadiers of the time did indeed wear bearskins, this regiment was NOT transferred from Dutch service but was newly raised. Bruce Burgoyne's "Waldeck soldiers of the American Revolutionary War" shows many of the older men had previous service in the armies of Prussia, Denmark, and the various Imperial states, whilst the younger men would appear to have been new recruits based on their ages. Only a fraction had prior service in the Waldeck army, and it is not clear if they transferred from current units, or were former soldiers who had signed up again. Part of the confusion comes from the fact that the men who returned from America became the nucleus of the "5th Waldeck Battalion" which did go into Dutch service, and was eventually sent off to the Cape of Good Hope (where some of them ended up fighting against the British in 1795).

My main question about the Hessians circa 1777-78 is what sort of marching pose should they have? Did they use that slow step or did they assume a looser and less formal march cadence?

I would suspect they followed the Prussian style, as they did in virtually everything else – at least up to the mid-point of the war (and certainly the British – and their own diaries etc – mention how slowly they marched compared to their allies). From late 1778 onwards, the troops in the main theatres appear to have adopted more and more ideas from the British; those in Canada, under Riedesel, seem to have done so from the start.

Hi Fritz,

I believe that the troops from Hesse-Kassel kept the closed files and the "common" step which I believe was 60 or 75 paces a minute. The British complained that for every 100 paces they marched the Hessians would only march 60. Also, the Landgrave was contacted to change the regulations for the marching pace and he said "no." The Hessians did change to the two-rank line at some point. This in itself is not too revolutionary since the Prussians and others did this when battalions became understrength during the Seven Years War. My source for the info on the Hessians is from Rodney Atwood's, "The Hessians."

Hope this helps.

v/r

Joe

By the 1790s the Hessians had adopted the bearskin, and IIRC correctly the army had been reorganized after the return from North America. I suspect that was the point of change.

@ Comte de Malartic and Super Max: would the marching pose used for the Minden range of Prussian then be appropriate for the Hessians in North America circa 1777-1778?

link

Yes, they would seem perfectly ok.

Fritz,

I'll second Super Max on the pose.

v/r

Joe

Hessians c.1784 in the Brown Library Collection.
Quite a few are shown in bearskins.
link
Actually these are listed as done by Carl and Muller based on Carl as well.

From Gallica – Hessian Guards c. 1776 in bearskins
link

Also from Gallica – another set with a Guardsman in bearskin c. 1760
link

The Gallica prints are an interesting find, but I would be inclined to doubt them being contemporary with the dates given, for the simple reason that those troops as "1776" would have been in America at that time and for another 7 years thereafter. Also, I don't ever recall mention of the Garrison regiments wearing blue small clothes, even in winter. Not impossible though, but maybe details from a different decade being extrapolated backwards/forwards (didn't SYW Prussian garrison units have blue "smalls"?).

I'm equally dubious about the bearskins as the styles don't match the dates – the SYW one is very Napoleonic (or at least French Rev) in appearance, whilst the 1776 versions appear similar to those worn by the French in the SYW. Again, not impossible, but unlikely.

Thanks Joe and Super Max.

According to"Das militär der Landgraftschaft hessen-Kassel zwischen 1783-1789" by George Ortenburg the change to beaskin happened after oktober 1785 when the new landgraf (count) William IX took over from his father. The uniforms were more anglosized (feathers and bearskin) and a reorganisation of the army started which ended in 1789. link
So imho in the AWI they wore prussian style grenadierhats, in the French Revolution the bearskin.

Bur I would love to see 28mm grenadiers in bearskin to use for the FR