"Late war German uniform color" Topic

I've read that either Vallejo Russian Uniform or Emglish Uniform are valid colors. Are these regional variants or just late war crappy german quality?

Yes.

yes..too much yellow thread

Evidently anything that looked greyish would do:

The Germans started using stocks of cloth captured in various European countries to make new uniforms, so there would be more options and shades around.

The M44 uniforms is particular often faded to a brownish shade, however I wouldn't go painting them khaki right off, it just looks wierd.

Field grey for wools or faded reed green for HBTs.

IMHO the above photo has tint adjusted a bit too red (making them look very brown)

Are they faded or something?
When you see high quality colour film from late war, the germans aren't all wearing khaki.

I agree with Johnnytodd.

johnnytodd may be correct. Many (film) photos shift colors to the red. However, note the jacket at the bottom (left) of the pile: It is an NCO's early-war/Reichswehr green with dark-green collar, and looks about right to me.

Keep in mind, also, that different theaters of war had different climates and thus needed different materials.

Here's a collection of uniform photos I have garnered from various sites.
link

I adjusted the color a bit – trying to bring the background from pink to white:

They still look pretty brown – but the M36 tunic seems about right.

Good topic but I think I would still paint my germans textbook fieldgrey – just for the sake of homogeneity

You need to be careful with colours in photos, particularly when re-rendered on websites. Are those jackets originals or repros? Some of them look battered enough to be original.

Anyway I'd go with grey or grey/green shades rather brown, maybe highlight with brownish if you really want. We did quite a bit of stich counting comparions of original kit with modern repros at a recent event, but really, out in the field under either cloud or sunlight all the German stuff just looks greyish from distances above 20m.

the longer the war went on the brownwer the uniform became..I have dozens of late war germans and no two uniforms are alike in colour and then there is the tailored zeltbahns..

Sorry, don't follow your eminence.

Are those dozens of late war german figures you've painted or late war german uniforms you have collected?

Oh.
I suppose corpses are another possibility.
Removed fresh from the battlefield using the cardinal's tardis and frozen.

sorry Germans I have painted….actually must find the pictures..looking through my uniform book collection nwhile in the my tardis ,while making tea ,has led me to believe brown is not unusual at all. especially with regards to the 1944 uniform..

The third from the right actually looks more like the desert uniform than the European uniform going by the color of the eagle. Notice on the other tunics, the eagle is surrounded by dark green that is pretty uniform despite the color of the tunics themselves, but that one has a brown eagle. Same with the litzen.

Th photo is from At the Front Militaria (repro sellers) in a section about German uniform colors. It is a collection of *original* uniforms put side by side to show how much the uniforms varied to get the notion out of reenactors heads that there is some standard form of "field grey" and that all their uniforms should "match". They sell repros, but their site is full of all kinds of useful info. The guy that runs the company knows his stuff, though he is also very blunt, which I kind of like.

Nice job, Johnnytodd.

I suspect that Sundance is correct about the North African jacket. It looks, to my eye, like a lighter fabric, also.

I paint my early-to-mid-war Germans a shade somewhere between that of the second-from-the-left jacket and the one on the far right. More like most of the jackets in the link in my second post. Except my officers are more like the one on the far left.

North Africa uniform would be brown (cotton) but the Afrika Korps insignia was totally different with light blue-grey woven on tan background. What you see in 3rd from right above is the standard late-war "BEVO" woven breast eagle.

I'm willing to accept that these are all original wartime wool tunics, showing a variety of color possibilities.

As a collector -however- I bristle when someone tries to convince me that "There was no standard field grey color…" – this usually precedes them trying to sell me a beige tricot polyester M43 hat("…the germans pioneered synthetic fabrics!"). "No standard color" is the mantra of the unscrupulous – or the colorblind.

For my minis in 28mm scale I'd rather paint them the "textbook" color.

Maybe "standard" is a poor choice of words (and I don't think that is the argument used on that site). Rather, it is trying to correct the misconception among the reenactment community that there is a single "correct" color or that all of their uniforms should be perfectly matching.

The site itself clearly states that there is a "spectrum" of "correct" colors and that there are variations in shade from year to year, uniform to uniform, and dye lot to dye lot. The pic posted of that group of uniforms shows this pretty well.

Keith

Misconceptions go far beyond the reenacting community.

I've engagaed in this argument from both sides (many times now) and I can see both points. The germans in WW2 clearly did not maintain strict control over their uniform mfg standards – the way they did in WW1. The above uniforms are testimony to that. That is not to say that they did not have a very specific idea in mind of what the "standard" should be… they were german after all! The whole idea of "UNIFORM" is to maintain a "standard" – by its very definition. Every soldier wearing a slightly different shade of fabric smacks of personal choice and self expression – which is totally against the idea of discipline through uniformity… so, yes exceptions existed from batch to batch or region to region, but I wouldn't paint my german minis in a rainbow of fancy colors.

Yes, I would expect a degree of uniformity within a single unit. I am reminded of Guy Sajers story of how his entire company were issued with new uniforms, apart for one unfortunate Landser who missed the parade. So they were all in nice new jackets, whereas he had still had his faded old rag.

I agree with Martin. I have always gone with the same colors for my platoons. My early war Germans are in the greener field grey M-36s (and the reed green HBT tunics where appropriate), and a mix of the mouse grey trousers and field grey. My mid war Germans are all in field grey that is a more mid grey-green. And my late war Germans are in a shade of more brownish olive grey-green. It gives some variety to painting and the forces in my collection.

Maybe it would be more accurate to say that while there was a standard they did not always meet that standard -- a jacket in something close was better than no jacket at all.

But, as said above, it's most likely that uniforms were issued to units in batches, so everyone would be "uniform" within a regiment, or at least a company -- except possibly for a recent replacement or a soldier returning from leave or hospital. Also, officers probably had to, or could, supply their own uniforms, probably better made and from better material, dies, etc.

BTW, Afrika Korps tropical uniforms were supposed to be olive green; however, after a few weeks in the desert sun they faded to a khaki tan of one shade or another. Since the jacket was not worn as much as the pants and cap it often faded less than they did.

My last comment makes me sound like a real bore. The reason I find germans so challenging to paint is that they used so many different uniforms and camo patterns. So with knowledge of what was worn when, you can have a variety of really interesting looking minis…

Sadly I did go with 'rainbow' style LW Germans for my 15s, with every conceivable camo pattern and normal uniform jumbled togther in a horrible mess. Like a 90s style website with lots of animated GIFs on it.

My 6mm and 20mm stuff is much more uniform.

I'm not repainting them now though:) and they don't look too bad at normal gaming distances.