"Jargon question." Topic

Recently I asked a question about Robots meaning mechanical beings in the human scale, but one of our members pointed, by way of pictures to much larger vehicles. i.e. Giant Robots a'la macross and other piloted walking vehicles.

In general when I say robot I mean something human scale and autonomous, i.e. Star War's Droids…

If I mean larger piloted "robots" I tend to use the term Mecha.

The question is are the two terms interchangeable? In that if I ask about robots am I asking about both?

If I mean just the smaller is there a better word to use in the topic header?

I don't think the word robot implies human scale – there's the Iron Giant, or the enormous, planet-eating, Von Neumann machine 'space carrot' in original Star Trek for example.

But I would agree with you that mecha are not robots, in the same way that cars, tanks and fighter planes are not robots. They can't do anything without a driver/pilot. Robots are autonomous – although assembly line robots need a human to switch them on first thing Monday morning…

I suppose the confusion is that mecha LOOK like humanoid robots. I mean if a Transformer and a Macross-a-like mecha stood next to each other, unless you were a fan of one series or the other you'd be hard pressed to say which was a robot and which was a mecha!

I always look at it as,

Robot, Droid is controlled by Artificial Intelligence or computer construct. Examples would be Star Wars droids, Transformers, I-Robot….

Mecha is controlled by human articulation. Examples are Veritech fighters, Mauraders, Battletech style machines.

As far as Sci Fi goes I think most people think of a robot as a humanoid machine (C3PO, I-robot) or a human sized vaguely humanoid machine (Robby, Johnny-5, R2-D2…ok, he has legs, a body and a head!). There are examples of much larger robots, but I think it's the little robots we see most frequently.

If you want to get super technical, the term "mecha" was originally used as a short version of "mechanical design" and was applied to anything and everything from ballpoint pens, dinner trays, parking meters, or any other non-character design in anime and manga.

In the common usage, I think of mecha anything that is piloted.

I should also say that robot, for me, has no direct correlation with scale, size, function, etc.. A robot is anything that is autonomous in nature and can be built for any number of functions from dumpster duty to crawling around in air ducts exterminating and disposing of vermin.

-Eli

Everybody calls freakin' RPVs robots nowadays, too. Drives me nuts. As far as I'm concerned, "robot" means no human controller.
-Kle.

MECHA was supposed to be an all inclusive term for anything MECHAnical.

Cars and robots and trains and spaceships and so on… were all supposed to be covered by the term Mecha. I think it got Americanized to only be about giant human powered robots.

Actually, I use Mech (not Mecha) for big piloted humanoid fighting machines. Because the anime term mecha is *stil* used to mean everything mechanical.

Robot, to me, means autonomous. Tachikomas are mecha, but they're also robots. Submarine 707R is a mecha, and so is Blue Sub 6, but neither one is a robot.

Automaton: A mechanical construct resembling a human or animal that follows a set pattern of behavior to mimic a human or animal behavior, but is otherwise not capable of independent action or responding to exterior stimili aside from those which specifically trigger its set pattern (as, say, putting a walnut on the anvil of an automaton "blacksmith" nutcracker— but the device would respond in the same manner to a rock, golfball, etc.). Typically found in Renaissance to Victorian era settings. Human operation is limited to setting/winding or fueling the device and turning it on or triggering the stimuli.

Robot: A mechanical device of any appearance or size which can follow a wide array of progamming, but operates largely independently and can respond to a variety of appropriate stimuli related to its task. A robot can be fairly "dumb" or demonstrate full-blown artificial intelligence of human level or greater. Human interaction is typically unnecessary, aside from switching the device on and/or giving general commands.

'Droid. Star Wars Universe only. A self-powered artificially intelligent mechanical device capable of fully autonomous and independent action, and even demonstrating unique personality traits. Usually man-sized or smaller, though somewhat larger devices are possible; however, a 'Droid is typically expected to operate within a human-sized environment, which limits the expected size.

Android: A self-powered artificially intellegent mechanical device or even biological construct which closely resembles a human being or humanoid, yet is not biologically conceived.

Mech: A giant walking tank, operated by human or humanoid passengers, but otherwise incapable of significant independent action or responding to external stimuli, aside from limited automated responses intended to protect the crew or the device itself.

Mecha: Any over-the-top absurd mechanical vehicle in a quasi-sf animated series typically produced in Japan. Can range from Big Stompy Robots to walking tanks to bizarre devices of all description.

Notice there is overlap: A Transformer, for example, is a robot and a probably a mecha, but is not a 'droid, an android, an automaton or a mech.

The terms were interchangeable. With the above example of mecha being short for mechanical design, most mechs are called robots in Japan. In fact, most designs that are most fantastical than realistic (with hot-blooded pilots screaming their attacks powered by handwavium or sheer willpower), from Mazinger Z onward are known as Super Robots (although Gigantor is frequently retroactively put in that category). More technical designs, with Gundam as the turning point, are called Real Robots. Of course, some designs fall somewhere between the two (as Gundam is now treated), while others, like the EVA from Neon Genesis Evangelion, are not considered mecha in some circles.

Since Asimov coined the term 'robotics' (but not robot – that was much earlier) and he was using it in reference to self-directed, independent machines, I would apply robot to any autonomous machine.

RPVs get a bit tricky because many of them nowadays have some ability to pilot themselves for a while, with a human operator taking over when things get interesting.

Giant human-piloted anthropomorphic AFVs? Not what I would call a robot.

Since Asimov coined the term 'robotics' (but not robot – that was much earlier)

Specifically, the play R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots) by Karel Capek coined the term, which was derived from a word for "forced labor(er)" originally. His robots were wholly biological, closer to clones or replicants than anything else – the "tanks" in Space: Above and Beyond are similar, as are the artificial life forms in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

I think Parzival and Jakar have covered the technical definitions thoroughly, but jargon-wise, I tend to use robot for anything controlled by an AI, mecha for anything piloted from the inside, and drone for anything remotely piloted.

Don't forget "Robot Vehicle" in Rifts jargon, which at some points was interchangeable with Power Armor (depending on size).

Everybody calls freakin' RPVs robots nowadays, too. Drives me nuts. As far as I'm concerned, "robot" means no human controller.
-Kle.

What Kle said (plus a big, fat, one )

John T