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"Tell me about War and Conquest" Topic


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5,084 hits since 4 Feb 2012
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Personal logo DColtman Supporting Member of TMP04 Feb 2012 5:44 p.m. PST

Is anyone who has the rulebook or played War and Conquest willing to share their impressions of it? The book looks nice and as a WAB afficionado I have faith in Rob Broom, but what's in it in the way of army lists and scenarios? What sets it apart from games like WAB, HC and COE? How does it compare for playability and complexity?

I've read Rob's designer notes on the forum but was looking for second party takes on it.

Dave

Scarab Miniatures05 Feb 2012 3:06 p.m. PST

Dave
quick late night post
There are a couple of brief army lists (Spartan and Thracian) in the book, plus a range of profiles to enable players to make their own.

Our main plan is put the army lists online. This process has already started and will continue. Check either our forum or warandconquest yahoo group. Theres a brief battle report or two as well (from recent engagements including someone elses blog, so independant)

Scenarios are too lengthy to explain here, but sufficent to say, there are plenty of options and ideas for a lot of variations to avoid playing the same game and deployment over and over.

There are a number of magazine reviews coming, and a game was featured at length in Wargames Illustrated, November issue with plenty of explanation.

Finally for now, (because you don't really want my view!) each turn, both sides roll for Strategic Advantage, the winner chooses to go first or second that turn, this allows for the possiblity of two consecutive moves, powerful if you can pull it off.

And the game is intended to be streamlined, after a couple of games, all you really need is the army roster and the troop profiles, refering to the book when you have a 'senior moment' or a reminder.

Kind regards
Rob
scarabminiatures.com

malekithau Inactive Member06 Feb 2012 4:01 a.m. PST

Just received my copy today.

It gives me more of a WAB vibe then COE. Some of the rules read almost like a direct cut from one of the WFB/WAB versions. Simpler in a lot of ways then WAB and COE by the look of it though just as many movement rules – ancient troops could pull of all sorts of wonderful moves. The stats are simplified but in essence they are still there just the names have changed.

Haven't been able to play yet but will soon. Planning a COE/HC/WAC day at the local shop. Should be interesting.

It looks good BTW – same size as the FOG rulebook and lots of photos.

Personal logo DColtman Supporting Member of TMP06 Feb 2012 7:38 a.m. PST

Thanks guys. Rob, your views are welcomed. Are there page spreads or ideally a table of contents online anywhere?

Scarab Miniatures06 Feb 2012 8:37 a.m. PST

Page spreads here,

link

Contents
Preparing for War
Movement
Charges
Terrain
Shooting
Combat
Resolution
End Phase
(movement thru to End phase each have their own summary section for ease of play)
Personalities of War
Strategy Intervention Points
The Armoury
Skirmish Formations
Chariots, Artillery and Elephants
Battle Begins (setting up and playing a game)
The Rearguard (includes an index,profiles and reference page for equipment/weapons)

Malekithau watch out when you play the first game! There are a number of movement rules, but not all are striaghtforward for troops to perform, and some troop types cannot do them, so do not assume it plays the same at the other game, because it definitely doesn't and your amy might get into trouble quickly.
Our forum and yahoo group are also available for questions and discussion and theres an independant review/battle report here link

Hope that helps

kind regards

Rob
scarabminiatures.com

Mooseheadd Inactive Member08 Feb 2012 4:34 p.m. PST

I got my rulebook today. Havent read it, just browsed through it, so ill report back when i get a chance to play. But ill tell you this, the rule book looks good. Extremely high quality.

Scarab Miniatures09 Feb 2012 9:10 a.m. PST

I just added the Norman list to the website today, to complement the others already up. More will follow as I type them! Never seem to have enough time.

Next week there will be a detailed battle report plus probably an overview of another game (these games won't be played until Wednesday)

kind regards

Rob
scarabminiatures.com

Lord Raglan Inactive Member09 Feb 2012 10:46 a.m. PST

Darn fine rule-book, worth every penny.

In my opinion, War and Conquest beats WAB, CoE and HC hands down.

Raglan

Mithridates09 Feb 2012 3:49 p.m. PST

Looking forward to trying the Rules. Well produced quality product. The detailed index is a great addition.

Has some WAB 'features' but I like the subtle touches built in and the fact that while there is uncertainty good quality troops are more likely to do well.

Garry

Paul Cox13 Feb 2012 6:55 a.m. PST

Dave

Here are my initial thoughts from my first read-through and preparation for a game on Wednesday:

Rob's mentioned in many places that initiative is diced for at the start of the turn (and this dice roll can be influenced by 'Strategy Intervention Points'). This will probably make for some excitement at the start of each turn, but unlike in WAB, combat is simultaneous, so the tremendous advantage you got in WAB from being the charger and striking first is replaced by a simple +1 to combat resolution.

Formations infantry units have to be six wide to be viable (and cavalry I think four wide). I have yet to work out what the optimum depth will be. Rank bonus after combat is +1 for each rank of six including the first, up to two for regular units (only one for 'light' and up to three for a regular warband). I'm going to start with three ranks for Romans and four for barbarians and see how it goes.

Oh – and related to the above – in second and subsequent rounds of combat, ranks behind the first get to contribute 'supporting strikes'. This includes the second rank for most infantry, the third for spears (who get two to start with) and the third and fourth for pikes (likewise). At least I know how deep my hoplite and phalangite units are going to be.

Characters influence is restricted: the army general adds one to the Morale value of units within his ZoC and characters can sometimes add additional strikes to the unit they are accompanying. They are automatically at risk from enemy kills on the unit.

Overall, game seems simpler throws to hit, save and kill (made in that, rather more logical, order) are simply additions to your basic stat to achieve seven. So a Combat Ability 3 warrior needs to roll a four, for example.

Reactions to break tests after combat are a little more nuanced than WAB's simple pass/fail however the severity of the loss, coupled with the quality and size of the losing unit, has an effect.

Will be able to comment more after Wednesday's game, which I am very much looking forward too. There will be quite a bit of flicking through the book as, a little disappointingly, there isn't a QRS page.

Cheers

Paul

Scarab Miniatures13 Feb 2012 7:50 a.m. PST

Paul

thanks for that overview

For reference, the summaries at the end of each rules chapter should be sufficent as quick reference, plus the turn sequence on page 24/25 (rules of war)

Rather than put a QRS summary in the book we decided if there was demand we would put one online using those summaries (which is usually what happens anyway). Generally once a few games have been played you are only looking for details, and thats where the index kicks in (so make full use of it, following feedback on previous projects, I made sure it was pretty extensive!).

I will look at getting the summaries compiled into one page though, it shouldn't take too long.

Most important, enjoy the game, it offers different challenges and choices, so take your time!

kind regards
Rob
scarabminiatures.com

Paul Cox13 Feb 2012 8:19 a.m. PST

Rob

I would like to say that that's my only, and a very minor, gripe. I agree with you that the index is very comprehensive and that each section has a good summary at the end. I am sure you are right that we will only be looking for details once we've played a few games.

I also agree with what other posters have said, the book is superbly put together and looks beautiful.

Cheers

Paul

Scarab Miniatures13 Feb 2012 8:33 a.m. PST

Paul

no problem we will attend to it.

Enjoy the game, it creates a different kind of tension to 'the other game', especially in subsquent rounds of combat when there is plenty of dice rolling going on!

kind regards

Rob
scarabminiatures.com

Scarab Miniatures14 Feb 2012 7:02 a.m. PST

As per request, a Quick reference summary is now on the Scarab Miniatures War & Conquest Resources Forum and in the war and conquest yahoo group

Kind regards

Rob
scarabminiatures.com

malekithau Inactive Member15 Feb 2012 10:02 p.m. PST

I'm leaning towards WAC as my default 28mm ancients rules with some hope being still held for Tactica 2 due to be launched around April. No really its on the forum :]

While the rules definely gave a more WAB "vibe" to me then COE did having reread them several times I can state they are quite different in a lot of areas even though the basic mechanics are similar or the same in some aspects.

A good example is the combat rolls. As noted above you need to roll over 7 with a D6 plus your combat value. In essence this means 7 minus your skill so similar to WAB. Skill 4 to hit roll 3, skill 3 to hit roll 4 etc. So very easy to adjust to.

Shootmenow Inactive Member20 Feb 2012 4:40 p.m. PST

Interested in these rules as I'm still looking for a 28mm set. Anyone have any battle reports or reviews I can read please?

Mooseheadd Inactive Member21 Feb 2012 6:09 a.m. PST

The magazine WSS (issue 59) has an article this month reviewing War and Conquest.

Scarab Miniatures21 Feb 2012 8:11 a.m. PST

Hi
There has been a detailed review in last Novembers Wargames Illustrated. Our yahoo group and forum have some battle reports and blog links to other folks reports, plus I have three more to write up and post giving an overview of some of the game mechanic details. You can find design notes in the forum and yahoo group.

Heres a tmp post with a review (see post 4) TMP link

And here a link to a blog post on our forum, several battle reports here link

There are more reviews to come including the WSS review.

Some of the earlier comments in this thread will also help. The game is designed to be entertaining and offer a different set of challenges to similiar games (because people already play those, so no point copying) but retain some of the familiarity.

Finally all basic army lists will (eventually- its a big task) be free online and the community are already adding some more detailed variants or commenting on others (thank you very much)

kind regards
Rob
scarabminiatures.com
warandconquest.co.uk

ether drake Inactive Member21 Feb 2012 11:55 a.m. PST

Do you remove casualties as per WAB or can models be multi-based?

Scarab Miniatures21 Feb 2012 1:30 p.m. PST

You can do either, although by removing casualites makes it simple to see when a unit reaches half strength.

All my units are a mix of singles and multi bases, once a unit reaches half strength I put a casulty model down to remind me (pictures showing this in the book) so that would also work with multibased elements or units.

They also add to the character and narrative of the battle.

But such models are not necessary, younger folk can usually remember!

kind regards
Rob
scarabminiatures.com
warandconquest.co.uk

Shootmenow Inactive Member21 Feb 2012 4:55 p.m. PST

Thanks, I'll follow up on the WI report.

Scarab Miniatures22 Feb 2012 6:43 a.m. PST

shootmenow, no problem and thank you, any questions just get in touch via our website, forum or yahoo group, where theres plenty more info and new material is being added. Next up is the Roman Republic and Cathage once I have finished off the lists

We also have a gaming day on the 25th March, loan armies available

kind regards
Rob Broom
scarabminiatures.com
warandconquest.co.uk

Shootmenow Inactive Member27 Feb 2012 4:15 p.m. PST

Well having read the battle report in WI I decided to order the rules. They arrived this morning and my first impression was, 'Wow!' I've wargamed for over 35 years and certainly bought more than my fair share of rules but I've not come across a classier looking book than this. The layout is very clean, clear and definitely inspiring.

However, to paraphrase someone, 'never judge a book by its attractive production values!' What is the content like? In one word, 'addictive'. The writing style just flows so that you're reading the rules without gaining the simultaneous headache that has so often struck me in the past. I had a busy morning but thought I'd spend 20 minutes after lunch having a quick scan. The reading was so relaxing that I suddenly realised I had spent well over an hour absorbed in them with still no sign of a headache! One of my first scanning exercises with new rules is to ask myself the sort of question that might arise in a game and see how quickly (or otherwise!) I could find the answer in the rules. I repeated this 3 times and each time the answer was very easily found via the excellent index.

I won't comment on how the rules play as I'm not in the habit of writing reviews of a ruleset I haven't actually played on the tabletop. Others may have the ability to do this but I know my limitations. What I will say is that I found myself mentally commenting, 'Oh, I like that' several times as I read. Whilst I haven't read all through the rules as yet, I have no doubt that these will get me back into Ancient and Medieval gaming and completing the several part-armies that bedevil us wargamers, so War & Conquest is certainly good news for Aventine and Gorgon at least!

My sincere congratulations to Rob and all who aided in this fine production.

Personal logo oldbob Supporting Member of TMP27 Feb 2012 9:01 p.m. PST

Shootmenow; What issue of "WI" was that Battle report in? You have given a glowing review of these rules, but I think I'll wait until I read "Raglan's" Battle report before I jump!

Shootmenow Inactive Member28 Feb 2012 3:09 a.m. PST

Hi oldbob70 –
WI issue 289 (November 2011) has a focus on the Peloponnesian War and contains background information on the battle of Amphipolis (422 BC), followed by a re-fight using the War & Conquest rules. In my opinion refight demonstrates quite neatly how well the rules cope with an unusual battle (basically a sally out of a walled town). I tend to find that rules that can handle that sort of challenge raerly have a problem with more 'standard' battles.

I think you are wise to read all you can on the rules before making your mind up. My observations revolve around the quality of the product and I'm happy to place my own integrity on the line in that respect. Having said that, I really like what I'm reading and I'm content that I will enjoy my games with them but, as I said, without actually playing the game I won't offer opinions on the various mechanisms the rules incorporate.

I'd like to clarify that I have no connection with Scarab, who publish the rules, and haven't even met the author, Rob Broom.

Personal logo oldbob Supporting Member of TMP28 Feb 2012 8:06 a.m. PST

Shootmenow; Thanks I just pulled that issue out of the book case and will read that article. I usually end up buying every Ancient Rules set anyway.

Scarab Miniatures28 Feb 2012 1:59 p.m. PST

Shootmenow

thank you very much for the comments.

If you are in the UK, we have a gaming day on the 25th March.

A lot of people have remarked on the presentation (and we really did make a team effort there), but, as I keep telling everyone, the games not too bad either (laughs!) so you should enjoy yourself.

We just did a small update on the war and conquest site, and another 4 or 5 army lists should go online later this week on the scarab miniatures fourm, and the war and conquest yahoo group

thank you again

kind regards
Rob Broom
scarabminiatures.com
warandconquest.co.uk

Carnyx03 Mar 2012 1:48 p.m. PST

Hello, I noted this set of rules on the Gripping Beast site. Read some of the reviews and looked at one battle report. I'm wondering if someone could advise how many figures are required to play for an average game?

Does the system worked with WRG style based units or is it best played with individual stands. I have some 15mm armies still based for DBM, can these be used?

What time frame was the game designed to be played in: 2, 3, 4 hours?

Does the system allow for playing historical scenarios/battles?

Much appreciated,
Mark

Scarab Miniatures04 Mar 2012 4:42 a.m. PST

Mark

Number of figures depends on the army type. Size of miniature is personal preference, although the pics in the book are all 28mm
Game plays in 2 to 4 hours, depending on the size of the battle and familiarity with the rules. A basic game allows for about 2000 points on a 6 x 4. This will take 2 -3 hours. At 2000 points, E.I.Romans will be about 100 figures, Barbarians about 200, depending on the composition of the army.
You can play smaller sized games although we tend to go larger as the rules allow for troops to join the battle once it has commenced. (Although we have thrown plenty of hoplites on the table recently and just got on with it! Part the battle report can be found by visiting this link link
Multiple based units will work (regardless of miniature size), you just need to keep track of casualties and remove stands. There are notes in the book about that.

I cannot comment on the DBM basing (as I don't play it, although the rules are 'somewhere' in the house). However you will get a more informed response by asking on our yahoo group or forum where there are more players of the game who also play dbm/fog.

By coincidence, during the next two weeks I am going to be putting together a document for using smaller sized models and basing options as I believe the game will flow really well using the smaller sizes and more troops on the table!
This is prompted by having samurai in 15mm, and just acquring some kallistra 10mms. As I do that document I can then give due consideration to other basing options as the more people who can just pick up and play the better.
As this will be partly discussed online on the forum and yahoo group, any additional feedback from people with such armies there will be most welcome.

We have fought the Battle of Amphipolis (featured in Wargames Illustrated and as our demo game) and as noted in the WI report, the system has the flexibility to accomodate historical battles and scenarios more easily than other games.
Over time, I expect lots of scenarios inspired by historical battles on our website, we have also fought Plataea, and will be doing that again at the Society of Ancients gaming day. This time I will pay attention and not lose my flank to Persian cavalry
Kind regards
Rob Broom
scarabminiatures.com
warandconquest.co.uk

malekithau Inactive Member04 Mar 2012 4:10 p.m. PST

Rob,

I'll run some games in 15mm using DBX (DBM/FOG) basing and report on the Yahoo group as well as here. Good excuse to use my Mithridatic list :]

John

Scarab Miniatures02 Apr 2012 10:09 a.m. PST

For reference (no pun intended) a set of Quick Reference sheets can now be found in our war and conquest yahoo group files section or on the Scarab forum here link along with army lists and other resources.

You can find some introductory info and page spread here warandconquest.co.uk

We had our first gaming day on the 25th, and you can also find a report and a link to some blogs via the forum link or here link

Finally for those who want another independent view on War & Conquest, you can find one here link


kind regards
Rob Broom
scarabminiatures.com
warandconquest.co.uk

Personal logo oldbob Supporting Member of TMP05 Apr 2012 7:09 a.m. PST

I find myself sniffing around these rules more and more, in the end I know I'll end up buying them!

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