"Metal prices and minifigs 25mm" Topic

In the (good) old days we used to have two rough choices when buying our 25/28mm figs. (I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT 15MM!)

1) Hinchliffe or minifigs – when I was buying them they were around 70p each. Hinchliffe were sometimes 5p more expensive, minifigs always being the cheapest way to get an army on the table.
b) "luxury" brands – starting with Essex and Elite and then later Foundry and Front Rank of course. These were often 15p or 20p more expensive but the detail and quaility of the sculpts, especially for the Perry-era foundry ones was evident.

Nowadays we are spoilt – not only are there the fantastic plastic ranges of Victrix and Perrys but there are plenty of other lovely figures by the likes of Offensive and Calpe to name but two.

What I can't understand is how you can STILL buy Hinchliffe new for 75p while Minifigs now make the most expensive figs on the market.
Take a look at the current prices for a single foot figure (bulk deals excepted):

Hinchliffe 75p
Eagle 90p
Front Rank/Perry/Calpe – £1.10 GBP
Minifigs – $1.10 USD/£1.20

How does that work? Surely it's like Kettering Town charging more for a ticket than Barcelona?

Minifigs now make the most expensive figs on the market.

You've obviously never tried purchasing from companies like Hasslefree hfminis.co.uk £4.00 GBP a figure.

Even some historical lines are quite expensive, e.g. Knuckleduster Miniatures via Caliver Books at £1.50 GBP a figure.

In the good old days Minifigs were 9p for foot.

Then they became 10p for foot.

then they leaped to 11p for foot !

Disaster !

£1.00 GBP pocket money now only bought 9 figures whilst units were built in multiples of 10 !

Warrior are a lot cheaper than all those listed !

But I do agree – minifigs seem to cost more than other figures of equivalent age. Pity.

Was wanting to expand/flesh my 'ancient' renaissance armies made from rescued minifigs – yikes -when I realized the cost.

At one time, you could buy Minifigs 20mm, ready painted, for one shilling each (about 6p). Unpainted they were 10d (5p).

The opposition then was Hinton Hunt. If you bought them in sufficient quamtity, you could get them down to a shilling each and then settle down to many happy weeks of exhuming the figure from its surrounding overcoat of flash.

Doug

My first metals were Minifigs PB range @ 6.5p ( I remember the price as it took a while to garner the resources: wash dad's car, mow the lawn etc.) …

Awful figures but I remeber at the time I thought they were very good (I also remember thinking that they were much more 'accurate' than the ancients in other contemporary ranges).

I still have a few in the basement.

Phil

This will date me… I purchased a larger portion of my Minifig armies at Southhampton, England….ie..the actual factory store front. Back in 1976, the exchange rate worked out to about 25 cents a cavalryman w/horse and 12-14 cents for infantry. These were 25mm as 15mm was unknown.

Walked into the store front shop, spent about $1,100 USD dollars, placed 12-16 infantry or 6-8 cavalry or more miniatures into those old cardboard boxes (repackaged) back in hotel, loaded up the suitcases (2) and the look at the airline counter was priceless. Paid over weight bag fee of $10 USD each. I think there were 90 and 95 lbs+….of miniatures. My clothing was mailed home or used a packing material. Overcoat with "big" pockets was stuffed also….plus I carried home armful of books…no laptop in those days. Carry on bag weighted more than most luggage…with "reinforced" straps (weight unknown but think high). Plane took off…..I think dragging it's tail. Another friend took home an actual motorcycle in baggage. Cricket team tours are so much fun….

Made the store sales record for that week…..And here is the kicker….There was three of us doing this….one store employee each, picking and retieving the miniatures…..23 of that pose….14 of another etc. Individual miniatures….none of the "battalion packs" back then.

I still have the miniatures. All painted and lovely cared for.

M aka WR

like it !

Also, still like PB range (use them in my Middle Earth armies, alongside ME range figures !).

marvellous memories but has anyone actually read my initial question? How are Minifigs now more expensive than Perrys/Calpe etc?

marvellous memories but has anyone actually read my initial question? How are Minifigs now more expensive than Perrys/Calpe etc?

Because people will still buy them at that price point?

Much as I like Minifigs, £1.10 GBP is taking the for one of their 25mm foot figures.

Could simply be small sales plus having to get new moulds made. Garrison infantry are 75p or 85p.

£1.20 GBP for foot officers/buglers/drummers etc

maybe they're cast from gold

I suspect the pricing is to do with the fact that many of the moulds were shot and needed replacing. Caliver are trying to recoup their investment in buying Minifigs (MF) fairly rapidly in order for it to be worth bothering with at all.

I guess there are two ways to look at this:

a) had Caliver not bought MF then no more new castings would have been made (of course somebody else may have bought them) and it would have been a great shame to loose them altogether as I think they are still very popular.

b) relative to what the best modern sculpts cost they are, relatively, very, very expensive for what you are actually getting.

c) there's also the view that the Perrys, as an example, seem to plough an awful lot of profit back into expanding the range and this is a slow process with MF who admittedly would have to buy in sculpting.

I'm somewhere between the a) and b) points of view. I've put in small orders to finish off units in a large(ish) collection but I've bought or been given quantities of second hand figures which have been stripped for repainting saving me having to buy new. MF do tend to be popular lots on ebay IMHO and I'm sure this is due the large gap between the cost of new castings and the worth/value of old castings. I typically pay as little as £0.35 GBP – £0.50 GBP each on ebay.

However, the price point for new MF figures has very much made me decide to only add to this collection when I can buy second hand except in exceptional circumstances when I can't wait any longer to see if something comes up on ebay. I'm also not sure if all the MF moulds have been remade as they are not producing as clean castings as say the exceptionally good castings the AB (Fighting 15s) moulds turn out.

The other killer relative to say the Perrys is the MF minimum postage of £2.50 GBP I can and do just buy the odd box of Perrys every now and again and the postage is a flat 12 per cent rate. Just buying a few MFs is eye watering due the £2.50 GBP minimum postage fee being added to a small order. I know its a hassle for them but it is equally as much bother for the Perrys to process a small order yet their policy accommodates those of us who don't wish or aren't able to buy large quantities in a single order. Would I buy more MF if they were £0.70 GBP – £0.80 GBP each, which is about the most I think they are actually worth? An emphatic YES!

Six foot figures (let say no command) as one order from the Perrys is £6.50 GBP + £0.78 GBP, £7.28 GBP in total. Or £1.21 GBP each

From MF the same is £6.60 GBP (no command figures included) + £2.50 GBP ie £9.10 GBP or approx £1.51 GBP each. If its six command figures as you could buy in a Perry box and it jumps to £1.61 GBP each whilst the PErry price remains the same as six rank and file figures. Yikes!

I do wince a bit when officers etc are another 10p. MF never used to have that policy and it seems a bit unfair but is probably due the the way the moulds are now set up.

Re Hinchliffe at 70p – I did think of switching over to them but I've no idea how good the castings are and how recent the moulds are but it is tempting to find out.

I would also say that I've no idea how much more metal that a big heroic 28mm uses over a MF but in some cases I would guess it must be double or even three times as much metal. Maybe 1.5 times as much with a slender Perry figure. This might not matter a jot seen over a few castings but as metal bill over a year for the company that's a massive difference in the cost of raw materials which admittedly are only part of the cost of production.

I don't collect either anymore – if I'm going to spend all those hours painting it's going to have to be Perry's/Victrix etc

but imho Hinchliffe were, and are, WAY BETTER sculpts than MF. Look at some of the Foremost range – wounded officers in slings firing pistols, soldiers carrying wounded ensigns – great dynamic stuff.

75p vs $1.10 USD/£1.20 (plus the postage issue as mentioned by TTimmo)

just can't figure it out – but then I can't understand who buys the Daily Mail or Enya albums – the world can be strange.

Yes I take your point absolutely M'Lud, they are overpriced.

(I wouldn't even consider buying them compared to Perry or FR, except that all my Minifigs cav units are 18's now except for one darn unit of Russian Hussars which is at 15…and actually their Russian Hussars are pretty good….)

They are over priced, but I'm older and better funded now. If I want to complete an old unit , or add another I'll need to pay up to get what I'm after.
When I needed limbers for my Lasalle units, I went to Caliver and the castings were clean, flash free and priced comparatively with other brands.

yes i think the limbers/carriages/wagons etc are still great value

Minifigs are £1.10 GBP not £1.20 GBP, except for officers and gunners, and the pics on their site seem to reflect fairly crisp and well proportioned castings. They seem reasonably good value to me.

But, other than 40K, I haven't bought a 25/28mm figure in nearly forty years, so I can't really judge in the context of value except to say that you couldn't buy much for £1.10 GBP from GW.

Good to see you back posting Tim!

Foundry – £14.00 GBP for 6?

Each to there own. I reckon the manufacturing costs of whatever shape and level of detail on a figure must be pretty similar. A man to spin the mould, pour metal in, store, pack, post etc. So maybe Minifigs pricing reflects an economic cost of running a business.

I believe Caliver runs a business and employs staff. Some manufacturers are perhaps smaller operations, run on a part time basis (the garden shed style of operation).

And hence my starting point re Foundry – if you like them, knock yourself out. I will buy what I want when I want and what I can afford. Maybe that is how the market economy is designed to work.

Well done Maynard Keynes

Lord Hill.. man of my heart here. I have several MiniFigs wagons, pontoon figures, and engineers from their 25mm Napoleonic rangs. Had them well over 20 years now. Useful figures. Too bad about the pricing, which is why I shy away from them.

Well, economics can be like that LH, as all of us in the UK are feeling to our cost at the moment.

But I think your question really does probably reflect the different producers in this hobby. When I met the guys from Eagle they seemed nice, but I did not get the feeling they were full time figure manufacturers. But maybe I am wrong. I know that, being selfish, i wish the Minifigs were cheaper, but I wonder how many of them i would buy even if they were. If they were, say 50p, would people prefer them to plastics? But I am not convinced they would. I think the world has moved on, and people buying MFs now (esp 25s) are probably filling the corners as it were, rather than starting anew. So maybe the price reflects costs of production and volume.

I recall that Dave Ryan did respond on a previous similar thread, so that may be worth dragging out.

But if you like them, then is £1.10 GBP or £1.20 GBP too much really? So is it the price you object to, or the fact that other products are less expensive?

And Enya is quite nice to paint to – very good background music :-)

So is it the price you object to, or the fact that other products are less expensive?

I think what he may be objecting to is that this figure

is only slightly cheaper (5p) than one of these figures.

Indeed, until Front Rank's price rise earlier this month, they were both £1.10 GBP

A Smart car or a Jaguar will get you to your destination, but you wouldn't expect to pay the same price for a Smart car as you would for a Jag.

Hmmm. I know what you are saying from a qualitative point of view, but is the cost of manufacture significantly different just because the older figures have less detail?

One argument could be that the artist's costs should have been amortised a long time ago. But as Caliver had to buy the rights, maybe they have incurred these costs all over again?

And a smart car is smaller, and has less add on bits that all have there own costs associated with it. Of course, there is a counter argument that part of the cost of a Jaguar is snobbery and "brand". Which is often how I feel with Foundry, yet people clearly still like them and buy them. Are Foundry worth more (in cost) than a Front Rank?

Hmmm. I know what you are saying from a qualitative point of view, but is the cost of manufacture significantly different just because the older figures have less detail?

From the manufacturers PoV probably not, but from the purchasers? Why would anyone buy a Brand X figure with less detail than a Brand Y figure if they both cost a similar amount? Labouring the vehicle comparison, which would you rather have, a Smart car for £7,000.00 GBP, or a Jaguar for 7250?

As I said upthread, I like Minifigs. All of my 15mm Napoleonics come from their lines, and I've a good few of the 25s still. I do think they're doing themselves and their customers a disservice with their current price points though.

My guess would be that Minifigs are expensive because they have a huge range but these days cater to a niche market. The days when they were the market leader, and their figures were available on the high street, are long gone. They are essentially now figures for collectors. I doubt any newcomers to the hobby would consider using Minifigs.

Keeping all of those thousands of figures in production is bound to increase overheads so I don't think it is too surprising that they are more expensive. You could argue that this may put people off from buying them but judging by the comments you see on these boards most people seem to regard them as hopelessly old-fashioned. Even if they were 50p a figure I don't suppose the fans of Front Rank, Perrys and Victrix would be tempted to buy them.

Me, I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Minifigs fan but that doesn't stop me from accepting that they are an acquired taste (and you probably needed to acquire that taste some time back in the 1970s).

Even if they were 50p a figure I don't suppose the fans of Front Rank, Perrys and Victrix would be tempted to buy them.

I would. I'd love to put together some 'old school' WSS/WAS/SYW armies. Minifigs fit the bill, and because of their lack of detail they're easy to paint and still look good in large units.

If they were 50p (or even 75p) a figure I'd be right in there.

Well, let's be honest here. Caliver a) probably wont be selling a lot of 25mm Minifigs (compared to 15mm) so won't have a volume throughput to reduce any amortization costs they have had to incur, and b) it's from Caliver. Caliver like to make money and stay in business. They are always a bit pricier in direct or hidden costs (such as p&p) compared to others in the region. c) The casting shown is in the recycle phase of it's Product Life Cycle. (Look it up). It sells on factors other than price. For example, I want to put an extra unit in my ancient (in all senses of the word) Belisarian Byzantine an army which I've had since the 1980's. I tried to put Essex in a decade or so ago and they were just too chunky. So it has to be Hinchcliffe again if I dont want to redo the whole army. It's only a dozen cavalry figures, so Hinds will be getting a cheque from me as soon as I can get round to it whether it's 75p or £1.00 GBP per casting.

The answer is to vote with your feet if Caliver pricing bothers you (or vote with your wallet). With Spirit Games in the region I've not bought any rules from Caliver for years.

If I were you I'd wait until the Foundry sales hit the shop and grab a load of discounted stuff then.

(PS, I bet the Minifigs will take half as long to paint as the Front Rank minis, lovely though they are)

@Connard Sage

At the risk of being accused of teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, have you considered Garrison? Their SYW range fits perfectly alongside Minifigs and their figures are much cheaper. Unfortunately, they are closed down for the winter but according to the website they will be emerging from hibernation in March.

I've switched to 15s for all of my figures so haven't bought from them for a couple of years but I always found Rob Young a great guy to do business with. I love their ECW and SYW ranges. For me they are what old school wargaming is all about. garrisonminiatures.com

The Front Rank are 28mm, are they not? As I remember Minifig are 25mm.

From what I've seen at my club and shows 25mm and 28mm don't mix very well and the latter need a very skilled painter to do them justice.

Mind you as somebody who downsized to 15mm in the early 1970s and then to 10mm in the 1980s, I don't really have a dog in this one.

From what I've seen at my club and shows 25mm and 28mm don't mix very well and the latter need a very skilled painter to do them justice.

I'm not talking about mixing them. Do pay attention Bond.

I would. I'd love to put together some 'old school' WSS/WAS/SYW armies. Minifigs fit the bill, and because of their lack of detail they're easy to paint and still look good in large units.

See? I'm not selling my Front Rank 28s either…

have you considered Garrison?

I hadn't. I may do now.

Damn you!

Garrison could be getting interesting when we reopen. Basically, managed to tie Paul at Amazon down with the end result that I've bought the old Pendragon range as well as Paul's 12" spincaster. They haven't been delivered yet, probably a couple of weeks.

Which means I will be able to cast from the 12" moulds as well as from the 9" moulds…so some ranges will become easier (or even possible) to cast, while others will probably stop being practical. Depends on how well the 12" moulds work.

So…if particular moulds are OK, I should be able to reduce the time it takes to fill orders, so may be able to reduce prices.

On the other hand, it may be a reduced range. I think the 20mm Garrison ranges will finally go, for instance. The 25mm 7YW, Napoleonics and ACW ranges will probably do well, as will some Ancients ranges. If so, look out for some cheaper 'bulk' buys – no good dropping the price because I can cast more figures at a time then have everyone buying single figures.

I'm not sure that the 50p figure will be practical, nor what the quality will be like until the moulds are checked – all the 12" moulds seem to date back over 30 years – but possibly 65-70p? – possibly 60p? Have to work the costings out.

Oh, yes – if the 12" spincaster works OK it means I'll have a spare Tiranti, so if anyone's interested….

Rob

Hmmmm yeah Garrison used to be great, well worth considering.

Also Lamming, which fit very well with Minifigs, and were beautifully sculpted. Iirc Lamming was relaunched a few years ago and has moved around a bit, currently residing with East Riding minis iirc. Not sure what ranges are available.

Minifigs now make the most expensive figs on the market.

You've obviously never tried purchasing from companies like Hasslefree hfminis.co.uk £4.00 GBP GBP a figure.

Not really a fair comparison.. historical rank and file troops or Fantasy for painters!

One thing to consider is that when a company buys in a range, like Caliver did Minifigs it is very probable that they had to get all new production moulds made.

It could also be that as well as Minifigs maybe spinning from older moulds that they had a lot of stock that had been cast up when metal was cheaper. When we started out in 2004 we were buying in cast figures at £4.05 GBP per kilo. Now it is 5 times that cost.

You also have to factor in whether Minifigs used to be cast on their own premises or if they contract cast…i dont know what Caliver do but if they contract cast their ranges then that will add casters premium wages to the cost as well.

To be quite honest you are still getting a good deal at the prices you are quoting, i couldnt afford to charge that and still expect to be in business!

@ CS,

>From what I've seen at my club and shows 25mm and 28mm don't mix very well and the latter need a very skilled painter to do them justice.<

>I'm not talking about mixing them. Do pay attention Bond.<

You're so vain. I wasn't even talking about you.

@Mrshasselfree,

Look round the boards and you will see that for many gamers the only good deal is one where the company concerned pays them to take their figures.

@Mrshasselfree,

Look round the boards and you will see that for many gamers the only good deal is one where the company concerned pays them to take their figures.

ha ha ha…i forgot to factor that into the mix!

I would never buy 15mm or 28mm Minifigs in a million years these days. 20 years ago everyone had some minifigs. These days there are plenty of better quality sculpts on the market. That said unless the metals are qualitatively different the costs per figure should always be the same. So why shouldn't they be 1.10 The actual production costs would be fair at this price.

However, if you are going to sell poorly sculpted miniatures you cannot expect to sell them at a reasonable market cost. Market cost vs market quality means that the purchase of Minifigs, even if at a song, which I highly suspect it was still means, if ya want to sell 'em, for no other reason than they are poor quality sculpts ya have to do so at the lower end of the market…………

Yet I reckon those people who like them (and people are entitled to like them, after all some people may not like the pumpkin head, baseball glove modern figures) are entitled to buy them. And there will be people finishing off old armies etc.

Me, I buy 1/72 plastics, so price wise I win, but I know that most other people think my choice of figures is rubbish, so I really do appreciate that everyone's own mileage will, as they say, vary.

And as Mrs H says, they would struggle to sell at that price. Perry do well, but then they are stil paid by Games Workshop, and have most costs under their direct control. Caliver perhaps do not.

I'm one of those people who prefer the old figures to the cartoons.

The predictable emphatic declarations of how much better the new figures are always kill me (I'm sure there are many recurring comments that amuse others but it's this one for me).

I've never been a fan of Minifig 25mm because of the barrel shape of the torso. They have a funny look to 'em but, next to those Front Rank figures…Well, I never realized how relative my dislike for the Minifig 25s was.

I'm just glad the old figures are available and in the grand scheme of things really cheap…have you priced Titleist golf balls lately? That is a painful purchase.

Well I still have loads of Minifigs in my 15mm Naps, and when painted up they look great.

In bigger scale Ancients I do avoid 25mm minifigs, which dont look right to me. Essex was my standard figure for most of my 25mm, with QT (of old!) for my several Indian armies and some fantastic Citadel for Wars of Roses/100 yrs war….

I'd find it hard to pass over the new plastics on the market if I go for any more 25mm Ancients, so 25mm minifigs have no chance at all in the general market imho. So it's irrelevant how much they charge.

I do recall with fondness though, my first metal minis were Minifigs in 1978. A dozen 25mm Brit Nap riflemen, bought from a model soldier shop near Bristol Temple Meads station. These guys were followed by a goodly number of ECW pike and shot from Sheffield Model Soldier Shop. All for 20p a figure iirc. I still have the ECW armies, although my painting skills I reckon have improved since then. Maybe I should repaint the worst cases and either sell them on or rebase for Impetus-type games!

I have also bought Minifigs & Hinchliffe since the mid 70s & found the former easier to paint, but the latter more satisfying when I developed sufficiently decent painting skills to do them justice. I do not buy any of the new generation of figures on principle, too much detail & too expensive. So few people, myself included, can do them justice, so why pay the price tag? I bought some Prince August moulds yeas ago and have been happily producing figures cheaply and painting neatly but simply ever since.

A lot of it is still a matter of taste. Old figures are not poorly sculpted or designed (well, some are, but to me most modern ones are as well). The fact is, lots of my customers have particular Garrison figures that they still describe as 'the best'.

Figures like Garrison, Jacklex, Scruby, etc are just more elegant…when they're good. Mostly they're good…though there are some stinkers.

I love the old Minifig S Range (I love their 15mm too)…just not the barrels.

Ah well, looks like I'll be spending a tidy sum at Minifigs in the near future – just bought some cavalry off ebay to boost my riders of rohan (Alexander Nevsky range if you must know !).

Only problem – no horses. Still averaging out the riders at ~20p each, I'll be able to do these for £1.75 GBP (£1.55 for a horse ! Arghh !). Overall not too bad.

But – here's the good news :

"DISCOUNT 10% discount on orders of OVER 30 figures of the SAME 25mm code. or over 12 packs of the same 15mm or 12mm code. You must post/Email your order in as there will be no shopping cart codes for the discount and pay by DEBIT/CREDIT CARD or CHEQUE/POSTAL ORDERS only NOT PAYPAL. You can of course mix other codes in the order but they will be at the standard price"

Reckon I'll need 30 horses, so that's 15p per horse saved.

If you're buying regiments of foot they'll be £0.99 GBP instead of £1.10 GBP if you buy in bulk.

So – buy in bulk !

Simples.

We had a minifigs shop in Plymouth in the late 1970s Minifig were awful then, so much lack of equipment. They are still awful figures, bought a few samples they have shrunk from their massive 1970s size to small(mini) figs……..just awful couldn`t wait to get rid of them.

Massive ?

When were they massive ?