"Near Future Realism: Wargames, books, RPGs" Topic

What is the opinion of TMP'ers regarding the most realistic near-future science fiction wargames, books and RPGs? As in settings where technology we have has been developed but science as we know it is respected.

So "Star Wars" and "Star Trek" are out, as is pretty much any FTL drive. But a simple rocket-vector outer atmosphere game like "Hard Vacuum" is in (disregarding the nazi/WWII fluff).

There also has to be a realistic opinion of what people will be able and willing to build. So huge fleets of space warships is just plain out (who would and why bother?). But small ships to defend a space station, mining operation or colony are in, and larger warships essentially no different from any other larger exploration vessel are in. Converted transports and mining vessels would be likely in case of a military problem. Ships should be manned and armed realistically. I don't see anyone allowing sny ship, no matter how carefully the crew is screened, to be armed with any weapons capable of wreaking substantial harm to Earth or any sizable colony or station.

Finally, no aliens from Saturn, Jupiter and Mars. Humans will still be the only sentient life, there being zero indications of any other intelligent life in our solar system. No wookies and DEFINITELY no ewoks.

Some that have been suggested and seem to fit the bill:

Ad Astra: Attack Vector Tactical & Birds of Prey
Hard Vacuum – Rocket dogfights in upper atmosphere
Sierra Madre Games: High Frontier – exploration / invention in the solar system (and nearby?)
2-Hour Wargames: Chain Reaction 3 (but not 5150!)

Nurse!!!!

Not familiar with a rule set 'Nurse!!!!'…

Hard Vacuum is actually out into hard vacuum.

You think colonies are a near-future issue? Interesting.

Oh, 'Nurse!!!!'

I get it. How droll. And apropos.

Doug

Near future is within a hundred years or so. 40,000 years into the "future" is a meaningless proposition. I can't even remember the Star Trek timeline.

Isn't there a guideline somewhere "if you can't post something pertinent to the OP, don't post"? Or was that our mommies who said "if you can't say something nice…"?

there are early stl Traveller rules and shuttle/capsule/station plans on drivethrurpg.com.

My own background using the FUBAR rules was the easiest way to get what I wanted, which is pretty much as you described.

link

My opinion are that stations or outposts which will be colonies in name only are the furthest hope for the next hundred years.

My opinion is that you limited the Hard Vacuum game, which includes the moon.

My opinion is that war expands beyond what is seen as reasonable at the outset.

My opinion is that you've already made a number of assumptions which disagree with my opinions.

My opinion, while requested in your post, has been rejected by your reply. I shall not bother you further with any thing I mistakenly think you are requesting.

Before you get upset at a sarcastic tone, you might want to re-read your first post.

Doug

But small ships to defend a space station, mining operation or colony are in, and larger warships essentially no different from any other larger exploration vessel are in.

Might want to rethink that. Warships require a lot more stuff than cargo or exploration ships. Redundant sensors, firecontrol systems, and stuff what goes boom, and then they need crew to make sure all that stuff stays working.

Converted transports and mining vessels would be likely in case of a military problem.

Again, warships need an awful lot more stuff. This murders payload space on a ship. For example, the American LCS are roughly the same size as a 10kton freighter like a WW2 Liberty Ship. Their 'cargo' capacity is roughly 1/100 of a similar-sized freighter, at least partially because a lot of the 'cargo space' is taken up by fixed equipment.

Ships should be manned and armed realistically. I don't see anyone allowing sny ship, no matter how carefully the crew is screened, to be armed with any weapons capable of wreaking substantial harm to Earth or any sizable colony or station.

So unmanned ships, and you're forgetting Jon's Law and the Kzinti Lesson. A 1000ton spaceship doesn't NEED anything but an engine to utterly destroy a station, and 1000 tons dropping in from orbit will do significant damage to the Earth. Ergo, by your own limits, there will be NO manned spacetravel.

Thanks for ya'lls thoughts.

If anyone wants to talk about the OP, which are games that are "near future" and more realistic than Star Wars/Trek/Blazers, feel free to chime in.

Those of you who want to debate the merits of "more realistic games" than fantasy sci-fi as given in examples above, feel free to start your own thread, on which I'll be happy to chime in on.

What about games where the setting is optional or has optional aspects? Regardless of background, Stargrunt is probably one of the most 'realistic' near future wargames I know of. And anything which you find unrealistic can be ignored, certainly where the setting is concerned.

I hadn't thought of Stargrunt, even though I have it.

What about Full Thrust? I've only heard a little about it.

5150's background might not be realistic (its a bit vague, so you can interpret it how you want), but the game tends to work realistically, in the sense that you'll be using real tactics for realistic results, more or less…. (Same is true with most THW).

Cyberpunk RPG had a Near Orbit source book, which had some pretty good rules in if memory serves (the background is obviously Cyberpunk). Its probably available as a PDF somewhere. The Atomic Rocket website is always worth a look in these instances. There was an RPG called High Colonies set entirely in the Solar System a couple of hundred years hence – rules are a bit thin and there's little detail on space ships and microgravity etc, but the background might be of interest. If you're going for near future a set of modern wargames rules may work with the odd tweak for ground actions.

Hesse: Well, Full Thrust usually has FTL capable ships, so I didn't mention it according to your criteria. But like all GZG stuff, it is generic so you can easily have ships without.

Check out the core rules for GURPS TransHuman Space.

Well, Jovian Chronicles is set in the early 2200s, but I would rate that as possibly the most realistic near-future setting and game (assuming a serious urge to get humanity out into the solar system).

The major colonies have declared independence from their colonizers, so you have Mercury, Venus, a semi-unified Earth, two factions on Mars, the wandering Belters, and the Jovians. There are a few colonies out in Saturn's orbit, but that's different.

No FTL, everything's inside the solar system. Most of the ships are fairly large (close to 500m long), but when you have colony cylinders a couple kilometers in diameter, they aren't so big. No artificial gravity, spin sections. The drives are all fusion-thermal, and that's really the only major physics breakthrough you have to buy. Well, that and smallcraft being viable, although 'small' is a relative term. Exo-armors are ~30m tall, but have fairly appropriately limited endurance (and yes, endurance is measured by 'Burn Points', which translate to delta-V).

The big complaint about any DP9 game is the vehicle design rules. They are fairly complex, and require you to do cube roots. However, once the vehicle design is finished, the game actually plays pretty quickly.

Full Thrust is a little looser, but is much faster to design ships in. Leave out the FTL drive, the Phalons, Kra'vak, and Sa'Vas'ku, and use the Newtonian physics. Still no endurance issues, however, except for smallcraft.

What's DP9?
OK, so these seem to be likely contenders:
Jovian Chonicles – The manga art turned me off a bit, but I like the sound of things there.
GURPS Trans-human Space, to which I'll add…
GURPS Space, if it's even in print.
Ad Astra: Attack Vector Tactical & Birds of Prey
Hard Vacuum – Rocket dogfights in "near space"
Sierra Madre Games: High Frontier – exploration / invention in the solar system (and nearby?)
2-Hour Wargames: Chain Reaction 3 (but not 5150!)

Oh, sorry. Dream Pod 9, dp9.com

The art is definitely a love/hate thing, but don't let it stop you from taking a look at the rules.

I would get the Jovian Chronicles RPG core book, since that has the design rules in it (and has tactical rules detailed for mecha/small-craft combat), and all 4 Lightning Strike books, which are purely ship-combat with a lower level of detail than Jovian Chronicles.

For those in the studio audience, there's a FREE download demo of the space combat game here:

PDF link

And I stumbled across this quote from Winchell Chung, so now we know his opinion:

"It all started with the coolest, most scientifically accurate, and elegant paper-and-cardboard wargame ever, Attack Vector: Tactical."

Gurps Space is available in two editions from Steve Jackson Games through e23.

But what you want to look at in the GURPS line is the GURPS;Spaceships line of PDFs, in depth discussion and rules for "realistic" space combat.

Though in general the more realistic a game is the less playable it becomes, at least in my experience.

You should be counting 5150:Star Army instead of Chain Reaction 3.0, regardless of the game's setting. Star Army has inherently better mechanics than the default CR 3.0 system, just ditch the aliens and any weapons that are too out there and Star Army is quite serviceable for the box you're attempting to build.

Battlefleet Mars link is a very faithfull presentation of what future space war is supposed to be like.

GURPS Mars has a hard science setting, as well as the adventures, I believe. GURPS Terradyne is also a "realistic" near future setting, if you can find it. link

GURPS:Terradyne is a very crunch free setting book, written under 2nd edition GURPS. So that version of GURPS Space will be very useful in understanding it.

Excuse me, Lightning Strike is a minis game like full thrust. You want the first edition of the Jovian Chronicles RPG, which also has tactical combat rules in it.

[where's that 'very embarrassed' smilie?]