"Dutch and Belgian Carabiniers at Waterloo?" Topic

Hi
Can anyone provide some information on what action (if any) the Netherlands 'Heavy Brigade' (Carabiniers) saw at Waterloo, (or Quatre Bras)?
Cheers

Nothing solid. They made a decent charge later in the battle. There is quite a stirring painting of it actually. Much neglected but they certainly outperformed the Dutch Belgian lights and maybe even than the union brigade. Sorry I'm on a bus now so got no books.

Taken from Wikipedia

This brigade took part in the Battle of Quatre Bras and the subsequent Battle of Waterloo as part of the Netherlands Cavalry Division (lt.-gen. J.A. Baron de Collaert) of the First Netherlands Corps under the Prince of Orange. This Corps formed the center of the Duke of Wellington's Anglo-Allied army at Waterloo. Trip's brigade was initially placed astride the Nivelles road, but when Trip noticed the French preparations for Marshal Ney's great cavalry attack after d'Erlon's failed assault on the Allied left wing, he repositioned his brigade to counter that attack to a position south-west of Mont St.-Jean. When Ney attacked the British artillery Trip's brigade joined Lord Edward Somerset's Household Brigade in its counterattack. Both the French cuirassiers and the Dutch/Belgian carabiniers charged. The French horses (already tired from their previous exertions) could not make sufficient speed, due to the heavy ground they had to traverse, and Trip's carabiniers shattered their formation through the sheer impact of their assault. This caused a rout of the left wing of the French cuirassiers, which was exploited by other allied cavalry units. During this encounter Trips's brigade suffered severe casualties[1].

Despite these casualties, the brigade soon had to renew its attacks. The 2nd (Belgian) Regiment was led by the Prince of Orange personally in a charge, where he encouraged them with the cry: 'Allons, mes camarades, sabrons ces Francais, la victoire est à nous'[2] (Come on, comrades, let's put our sabres to these Frenchmen, the victory is ours). The brigade again routed the opposing cavalry and pursued them past the road to Ohain. During these exploits the commanders of both the 1st (lt.-col. Coenegracht) and 3rd (lt.-col. Lechleitner) regiments were mortally wounded. Nevertheless, the brigade took part in the pursuit of the French army after the failed attack of Napoleon's Guard divisions finally caused its defeat, until Wellington called off the pursuit around 10 pm.[3]

Trip was mentioned in Wellington's dispatch of June 19, 1815 for the contribution his brigade had made to the Allied victory. Trip himself was made a knight-commander in the Military William Order on July 8, 1815.

Thanks guys!
Seems like a decent effort.
I'm suitably convinced now that the excellent Perry sculpts of both the Dutch and Belgian Carabiniers will be a worthwhile addition to my 100 Days project.
Cheers!

Mate, Have you considered doing a bit of light conversion work on the Perry Plastic French Heavy Cavalry using the Carabineer heads….Might save a few cents…..

Hi Sparker
Not a bad idea. I'll have a look and see how much work is required and if it's not a big deal maybe go that way. Though The Dutch Belgians didn't wear the armour, so I suspect it would be a big conversion.
UNLESS,… the Perry Plastic Dragoons could be converted,…
Hmmm.
Cheers

I think one unit didn't wear armor and the others did. Perrys also do one with bicornes not helmets.

They can be converted using the Perry Dragoons with not too much effort. If you have the spare carabinier heads left over from the Heavy cavalry set its not too difficult. Here is my attempt;
link
Although I decided to remove the fur band on the helmet and replace it with the metal disc as shown here;
link

I'm no great sculptor but once I had got the hang of it is wasn't too difficult. I started by rolling small amounts of green stuff into little balls and squashed them into place.

I was planning on starting the Dutch next but I will need to check the bits box to make sure I have enough Bicorns

Hi Guys
I've had a look at the Mont St Jean site:
centjours.mont-saint-jean.com
and had a look at the French Dragoons and Dutch / Belgian Carabiniers and have concluded that they look very similar.
Officers / Buglers might be a Challange, and the Dutch Carabiniers wear Bicorns, BUT; other than that a simple replacement of Dragoon head's from the (Perry Plastic Dragoons)for French Carabiniers heads (from the Perry plastic Heavy Cavalry) will go darn close to producing Belgian Carabiniers.
Using some Perry Plastic line infantry Officers heads in Bicorn might solve the problem for the Dutch 'Heavies'.
Horse funiture for the most part is ok also. Maybe just purchasing the COMMAND SETS for the Dutch / Belgians will solve my problems with Officers and Buglers.
Thanks for the tip Sparker!

Edwulf
The Perry's do both Dutch in Bicorn and Belgians in Helmet. Everything I've seen suggests to me none of the Neatherlands Heavies wore armour. If you could point me towards some evidence they did I'd be grateful.
Cheers

Definately no armour!

Hi Kipper
Missed your post. Nice work. Thanks for sharing

Cartman
Cheers!

Edwulf
Thanks for all the info on the Heavies activities at Waterloo.

link

Check that link. I hate to enter that vile pit of petty racism and anglophobia that is napoleonystika but it has a picture of a Dutch Karabinier with a bicorne. Just scroll down.

Hi Edwulf
Very useful link.
Many thanks!
Cheers
trailape.blogspot.com

the karabineer had no armour.
The Dutch ones (1st and 3rd)had bicorne, the belgian (nr 2) helmet.

Also just checked my haythornethwaite he doesn't show a bicorne but he acknowledges that it was possible it may have been worn.

Edwulf

Wikipedia is wrong, the Netherlandish Carabinier Brigade was NOT at Quatre Bras.

Well to be fair, it doesn't actually mention them doing anything so might mean that they were part of the army. Or it could be that it's just wrong. Eitherway the Waterloo info seems sound.

Here is a fantastic book "The Dutch-Belgian Cavalry at Waterloo." It's not too cheap, though.

link

I just checked in 'Waterloo Netherlands Correspondence'
by John Franklin.

One of the letters says the Carabinier Brigade was near Nivelles during June 16. They remained there during Quatre Bras and only moved northward toward Waterloo on the 17th.

Cliff

Here is a fantastic book "The Dutch-Belgian Cavalry at Waterloo." It's not too cheap, though.

It adds little or nothing to our knowledge of the uniforms at Waterloo, just repeating old information.

Belgian Carabiniers vs French Cuirassiers at Waterloo…

To view a larger picture… You just need to right-click on the image, copy the URL of the image and then paste it into your browser.

edwulf
haythornethwaite is wrong

Nice painting!

How so? His statement is quite ambiguous and allows for both possibilities. He says the probably could have worn the helmet but may have worn a bicorne.

Haythornethwaite states that both possibilities are plausible.
Research of the archives have shown me that the first 300 helmets were issued to both of the Dutch regiments in september 1815, to late for the campaign.

Hi I have had a bash at the 3rd Carabiniers, using Perry french Dragoons and some left over bi-corns which all needed a little trimming and some green stuff.
link

Although I have, and generally like the book "The Dutch-Belgian Cavalry at Waterloo", be careful with some of the illustrations. The colours used and some uniform details are quite different from most other texts. For example, the 6th Dutch Hussars are depicted in a blue with a purple hue that elsewhere is given as cornflower blue, sometimes treated as sky blue. When I went to have the unit repainted I found many other irregularities on the trooper, trumpeter, officer and their respective horses' equipment. I have not audited the other illustrations but offer this as a caution. Now the text itself is a good read, quite illuminating, with lots of great maps, reproduced illustrations etc.