Berlichtingen | 05 Jun 2010 8:26 a.m. PST |
Too Fat Lardies' latest offering, Charlie Don't Surf, covers the Vietnam War. In my opinion, it's the best set of rules the Lardies have produced, and the best set of Vietnam rules available. Ok, so who isn't gonna like 'em? If you don't like their other rules, chances you won't like these. Its roots are firmly in the soil of IABSM. If you only want to do skirmishes for Vietnam, you won't like 'em
they are designed for company level operations. If you're only interested in 28mm and you aren't rich, you won't like 'em
28s would be freakin' expensive to field a couple of companies. Now, for those still interested
The core of CDS is IABSM, but with refinements (some of which I can't wait to see in the next edition of IABSM) that really add to the elegance of the rules. Military and political victories
and you have to weigh your actions against both. Is that objective really worth the casualties I'll take? (Hey! Someone get that hippie, news crew outta here!) The free world forces have some impressive firepower, but refinements in blinds and hidden troops can really even things out. Shock and Awe
I love shock and awe. So much so, I'm not waiting for IABSM3 to add it in. Shock is somewhat like casualties, but temporary (yes, paint up them medic/corpmen figures) but cumulative. Your officers and NCOs (big men) can rally it off and your medics/corpsmen can help recover from it. However, if you ignore it, you'll build up enough to become Awed and then you'll start beatin' feet outta there. Best part, for me, is you can shock vehicles. You might not have any weapons capable of killing it, but you might be able to freak the crew out enough to cause them to bail. Best part, it doesn't matter what troops you command, ARVN, VC, AirCav, Marine, they're all equally fun and challenging |
Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut | 05 Jun 2010 8:57 a.m. PST |
Well, it sounds like a blast. I'm not interested in gamesthat big, but the mechanics presented make it sound like it would be oodles of fun if I were. Thank you for the review. |
peru522000 | 05 Jun 2010 10:48 a.m. PST |
Ok Ok, I will be the one to ask, what is IABSM? I'm sure it is something I should already know and will probably recognize once mentioned but I'm having a mind block right now. |
Battle Works Studios | 05 Jun 2010 10:51 a.m. PST |
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Ken Portner | 05 Jun 2010 11:03 a.m. PST |
Are the figures individually based in the game? If not, how many per base? Also, who makes 15mm Vietnam figures?
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Earthquake | 05 Jun 2010 11:36 a.m. PST |
Figures are based in groups, vehicles individually The samllest unit is the squad, so the average unit is 8-10 figures on a base. |
the trojan bunny | 05 Jun 2010 11:55 a.m. PST |
Basing is up to you. All the minis can be individual, or you can base them in small groups, or an entire squad on a base. As long as you have some way to remove/mark casualties you are good to go. |
TonicNH | 05 Jun 2010 12:05 p.m. PST |
Bede to paraphrase what's in the rules themselves "the rules don't mind how you base your figures, but you you will need to be able to keep track of casualties and identify Command figures on the table. How you do that is entirely up to you" So single bases multiple bases , combinations of the two anything goes as long as its consistent only 15mm Vietnam figs I know of are Peter Pig, QRF and Flashpoint – Incidentally if anyone anyone out there knows of a 15mm manufacturer that does 15mm VC HMG and mortar teams, early ARVN with M1/M14 or USMC with M14 please let me know
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Jay Arnold | 05 Jun 2010 2:51 p.m. PST |
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Berlichtingen | 05 Jun 2010 3:00 p.m. PST |
Peter Pig does ARVN with M14's. Flashpoint mixes in a few 14's in their Marine packs |
Barks1 | 05 Jun 2010 4:11 p.m. PST |
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TonicNH | 05 Jun 2010 4:13 p.m. PST |
ooh forgot about the PP ARVN M14 DOH! |
Skipper | 05 Jun 2010 5:42 p.m. PST |
I'm into Vietnam at 6mm and believe it'll work great. I've even mounted them individually and they look pretty good. picture Currently we use THW's FNG which is a great game and has another edition due out soon, but I'll be picking these up to as I love the IABSM. Now to wait for my summer paycheck with extra cash to come in. Skipper |
toofatlardies | 05 Jun 2010 9:02 p.m. PST |
Absolutely with 6mm, 10mm, 15mm or 20mm. The rules were written to fit with all of these figure scales "off the peg". 3mm is absolutely fine with just a change from inches to centimetres. The second edition of IABSM is seven years old now, and whilst Charlie Don't Surf shares a heritage I think that people will find that the rules are much more streamlined and far better presented. As for basing, well anyway you like really. I base mine in 2's and 3's on 1" circular bases (UK 2 pence pieces) with Big Men on 3/4" bases (UK 1p pieces). However I know lenty of people who, for example, are using Flames of War bases. In 6mm and 10mm half squads seem to be the favourite, and again lots of people going with individual figures for 15mm and 20mm. |
Muncehead | 06 Jun 2010 2:42 a.m. PST |
Barks 1: solo is do-able with the card activation system. There are obviously some situations that would need an umpire but if you play solo as I do – put yourself in the role of the side who's card has come up and play it impartially – it does work very well. Just played a game in 28mm of their rule set Troops Weapons and Tactics (similar basic mechanics) set in Nomandy (Brits vs PzGrens) and it had a good solo feel too. The card system can end the turn before some units have had a chance to move or act so I feel nicely portrays the unpredictable nature of a battle. Ultimately the rule set you choose does depend on the size of battle you want. Man for man combat you may want to look at FNG, for squads as units Charlie Don't Surf works very well. Especially so if you like the card driven activations idea as a means to providing some variability. |
vtsaogames | 06 Jun 2010 2:47 p.m. PST |
Suggestion for solo play: put the blinds down without knowing which are dummies and which are real. You'll find out the hard way – for both sides. Most shocking to find out what you thought was a powerful attack is really just a scout who scurries away upon being spotted
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D A THB | 06 Jun 2010 7:28 p.m. PST |
I was waiting to hear if these would work ok for 28mm , sounds like it would not be ideal . I do have about a company for each side ready to paint but would the ranges work ok with no mods? I really like Sharp Practice and have had a solo game of IABSM in 20mm which I liked so was really keen to get these. |
Berlichtingen | 06 Jun 2010 9:39 p.m. PST |
Dan, If you've got the 28s, CDS will work with them. The only reason I mentioned them not being for 28mm was the cost. The ground scale is 12-inches equals 100m, so for visuals you might want to modify that. If you liked IABSM, you'll love these |
toofatlardies | 06 Jun 2010 9:46 p.m. PST |
I think that Berlichten is right. The table size is the issue as Vietnam can often produce a very bust table scenery wise. I guess the key issues for scale are the infantry range band. 9" = short 18" = effective Whole table = long As long as you're happy with 28mm figures operating with those ranges (and I know plenty of people who are) then the rules will work just fine. Rich |
D A THB | 07 Jun 2010 4:21 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the reassurance. I have a twelve by six table at home and am working on lots of terrain so the ranges should not be a problem. I just have to get the figures painted 8^) |
toofatlardies | 07 Jun 2010 4:32 a.m. PST |
Dan I am officially jealous! Rich |
Minondas | 07 Jun 2010 12:50 p.m. PST |
Vietnam has been on my 'would love to do it' list for many, many years, but the jungle terrain always managed to discourage me. Still, I will probably pick up CDS one of those days, just because I love most of the stuff from TFL. |
GARY SEVEN JNR | 07 Jun 2010 1:02 p.m. PST |
anyone else have a problem with the pages falling out ? |
Muncehead | 07 Jun 2010 2:48 p.m. PST |
No because I got the pdf and had it printed and spiral bound
so there! |
DeanMoto | 07 Jun 2010 3:05 p.m. PST |
Berlichtingen: Just read your review – very clear & concise – thanks for the post. Dean |
toofatlardies | 08 Jun 2010 2:17 p.m. PST |
Gary We haven't had any reports of binding issues, but if you have one then just drop me an email and I will sort it out with a replacement. |