"M203 vs M79 ?" Topic

In say a minute, how many grenades can a skilled gunner launch with an M203 and an M79 ?

Do they fire the same grenades or different types ?

Was the M203 around in Vietnam, and if so, in what quantity ?

Whats the effective range and how effective are they at lobbing grenades over obstacles or cover ? I.E. Can they work as a sort of very light mortar, or is it mostly direct fire ?

M79 and M203 both use 40mm grenades

They can be used for indirect fire and have a minimum arming range of 31 meters so they are not much of a direct fire weapon the M203 replaced the xm148 which was a bit cruder the M203 was in use by the early 70's

And the Maximum effective range is the same as the maximum range 400 meters

Ahh one last question to answer the M79 would have a faster rate of fire given the construction it is a single weapon and easer to handle then the addon M203. Probably 15 rounds a minute if you were well practiced with the M79

I remember being able to have 2 in air before the first one hit at 300m. With practice 6-8 rounds (allowing time to see what you are doing) a minute seems right. This is with a 203

They do make a canister round for the 40mm for direct fire. Its been 20 years but these are the rounds I remember. High Explosive, White Phosphers, Canister/shotgun round and parachute flares. If I remember right the rounds for the M-19 are not compatable with the M203 & m79. Some guys were very good at "lobbing" rounds on target.

"In say a minute, how many grenades can a skilled gunner launch with an M203 and an M79"

There are some things to consider. Is the gunner prone and attempting to reload grenades from his vest? Is the gunner in a prepared position with all of his grenades lined up on a shelf he has carved in the parapet for easy access?

Whats the effective range and how effective are they at lobbing grenades over obstacles or cover ? I.E. Can they work as a sort of very light mortar, or is it mostly direct fire ?

Effective out to about 400 meters

I think its purpose is to put rounds through windows and doors beyond the range a grenade can be thrown. Its not designed for a high trajectory like a mortar. I have tried high angle shots but I was no longer using the leaf sight and it turned into a Hail Mary.

I could direct fire mine out to about 50 meters after that I would need the leaf sight.

If I remember right the rounds for the M-19 are not compatable with the M203 & m79.

I've read a few places that putting Mk 19 rounds into an M203/79 results in a Very Bad Day for the firer.

I never used an M203 and only fired the XM-148 once or twice for familiarization but getting 6-8 rounds out of a 148 would have been a task and even with an M-79, that's pretty fast.

I could achieve a a high rate of fire if all I was attempting to do was hurl grenades down range. Most of the time I was attempting to hit a fixed target so I would wait to see if I hit and then I would make slow careful adjustments. (half inch to the left, raise it half an inch, looks good FIRE) There was no range finder so I found myself guessing while I was using the leaf sight.

Don't forget the flechettes. Haven't been able to use them for a while, but they worked darn good in close. There once was a bouncing betty type round that had a secondary charge which lofted it up before it blew around 1.75m above ground.

Today you have to add spongees, stingballs and CS.

There was also a pump-action variant of the M-79:

world.guns.ru/grenade/gl28-e.htm

Loaded pump-action M-79 sounds a bit hefty, if you need to hump it around the good old jungle.

Griefbringer

I think the main advantage of the M203 over the M79 is that it is underslung on an M-16 whereas the M79 was just a grenade launcher and the Grenadier(?) had to carry a rifle as well…….

I thought the M79 grenadiers normally only carried a pistol for a sidearm – bit tough to pack a rifle when you already got the thumper and a boat-load of grenades for it.

Griefbringer

No idea if this baby uses the same type of 40mm rounds, but it should be REALLY quick on the first six rounds.
picture

A friend used the M-79 in VietNam, and his accounts agree with Saber 6. He could use up enough ammo effectively enough that other squad members were willing to hump additional ammo for him.

I've heard people complain about the M-203' fish-nor-fowl nature; it makes the rifle clumsy and isn't as good a launcher as the dedicated M-79. The early ones had a reputation for breakage, too. It seems like a good compromise to me, but I'm not a Veteran.
-Kle.

<<I thought the M79 grenadiers normally only carried a pistol for a sidearm – bit tough to pack a rifle when you already got the thumper and a boat-load of grenades for it.>>

Had an SF SFC tell me that he carried a sawed off M-79 loaded with cannister when walking point. After he fired it he would drop it (it was tethered to him) and use his back-up M-16. Those that used the M-79 swore by them and many gunners got to be very good. There was that time in Korea on the border, but, it never happened and the North Korean never lost his back.

The M79 and M 203 both fire the lower velocity round. The Mk 19 fires a higher velocity round. There is a foto in Shelby Stanton's Vietnam Order of Battle that shows three grenadiers firing from a rice paddy dike. I would think that some enterprising platoon leader took his grenadiers and put them together to make his own hip pocket arty battery.
Natokina.

I recall having heard that the WWII French could pool up the four rifle grenadiers spread through a platoon into a single rifle grenadier team when going into action.

Actually, didn't a full army rifle platoon have 6 M79 GLs, with two at every rifle squad?

Griefbringer

At full strength, yes, I do believe so. Somebody was on R&R or had rotated home or had been wounded.
Natokina.

After it's all said and done … the M203 is a better weapon … in my experience …

The M203 does one thing you can't do with AR/SAW which is negate most cover. It can quickly disable unarmored vehicles. It lends an air of Hollywood to any street corner!

The real comparison is between the Russian style RPG systems out there and the M203. Wait, I'll make a thread for that!

The M203 does one thing you can't do with AR/SAW which is negate most cover.

I would still expect foxholes to provide some decent protection (especially if also wearing a helmet), unless the grenade drops straight into the hole – in which case the results are not going to be pleasant!

But against linear above ground cover (walls etc.) dropping the grenades behind it would be handy means of levelling the advantage.

Griefbringer

Along with lobbing rounds thru windows, we always covered dead space with M203s … as they could lob rounds into places that AR/SAW/MG couldn't. Like a platoon or company's mortars, in the old days …

There is some good film on You Tube showing the employment of the M203. I'm not talking about Apocolypse Now where Roach fires indirect at a target he cannot see. Roach's shot is pure fantasy in my opinion, a true Hail Mary.

Agreed … Apo Now was not a documentary … but it had it's moments … ;-)

On re-reading Micheal Herrs 'Despatches' I found an awful lot of the incidents in AN seemed to come from that book, including the screaming VC hanging on the wire. I can't remember if he got killed with a grenade launcher now though.

Yes, he did.

It was exactly as depicted in the movie. A grenade guy with a customised launcher drops the shell on the VC in the dark.

I don't find it unbelievable. Someone experienced with a weapon knows its ballistic performance. He gets the direction from the sound, and he knows the range from his knowledge of his defensive wiring. If the victim was stuck on the wire he wouldn't have been taking cover, and the lethal radius of the fragmentation is 5 metres.

@Kilkrazy

I would love to see how many people could recreate that shot and do it consistently!

Probably not many.

Who gets the chance to practice these days?

True

Not many

Martin, Michael Herr helped with the screenplay for Apocalypse Now so it's not totally surprising to see some recycling!

Lethal burst area is 5 M by the way.

On a related subject, how much ammo does a M203 gunner carry?

(ok I know the answer is "as much as possible" but give me an idea)

Ken

20 in the vest? After that you get creative.

Weren't there bandoliers made for 40mm as well?

How many of your buddies could you convince to carry a bandolier or two for you?

In Nam, the 40 mikemike came in three round "bandoleers." On a long patrol, extra ammo for the thump gun and the pig were spread through the squad.
Natokina.

Outside the OMS Building in Al Amrah a Tommy put a ULG 40mm into a Mahdi Army fighters chest at 90 meters range. He was actually aiming at him as well.